Justified use of deadly force, or excessive? - Page 9
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 106
Like Tree290Likes

Thread: Justified use of deadly force, or excessive?

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Member #
    11801
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Georgia
    Posts
    34,439
    Liked
    26965 times
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonaredeye View Post
    Well, Ayoob is also the one who is the biggest critic of LEO firearm accuracy. He readily attributes to civilian marksmanship rates in self defense scenarios being 2X that of cops in service shootings. In the case under discussion, the clerk did indeed seem to sense what was coming. And he sure knew that the store was empty. I’m sure that had to do with his actions. It likely indicated that robbery could be eminent as the robber would have cashed out the store and was not going to enter until he was sure no other customers were inside. Sorry, that is an assumption on my part but watch the outline of the robber before he entered.
    ahh, yea the range that I belong to has a contract with several agencies to do accreditation/recert and let me tell ya the ability of SOME officers really leaves you shaking your head, not all now but enough to know that I kind of plan on protecting myself if need be.
    this includes armed security guards as well, the only ones across the Board that seem impressive are three Sky Marshalls and they can shoot lights out.
    230JHP likes this.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
    Currently Professionally Retired Old Person.

  2. #82
    Member
    Member #
    35468
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    65
    Liked
    38 times
    1-if the coroner determines that the perp was dead after the initial few rounds, then all the Grand Jury can do is recommend he be charged with mutilating a corpse. 2-if the perp was NOT dead when he shot him again, then the GJ has other options- the perp was no longer a threat? or not. I recall a story- "why did you shoot him 8 times?" I shot him every time he moved, every time I shot him he moved." It doesn't appear that the shop owner had any intent to render aid. anyone follow up on the case?

  3. #83
    Senior Member
    Member #
    46972
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dallas TX
    Posts
    3,047
    Liked
    3418 times
    I think it was "excessive" in that it doesn't take that many bullets hitting a man to kill him.

    I can understand being overcome by adrenaline, however.

    But I hope I'd pause a moment to assess the situation after being sure that two or three rounds had hit the torso.

    I wouldn't want to be caught in the middle of a reload if he had friends.
    Zen Ape likes this.
    "Failure requires maximum effort. If you didn't give it 100%, you didn't fail...you quit."
    "When calling for air support, never give them your own coordinates." -- Major Swain US Army
    "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity" -- Robert A. Heinlein
    "Never frighten a man smaller than you; he'll kill you." -- Robert A. Heinlein
    "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance" -- Sam Johnson

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TaurusArmed.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #84
    Senior Member
    Member #
    1005
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Alabama Foothills
    Posts
    12,654
    Liked
    10946 times
    You are right, one to the back of the head as he lay there would have been enough.
    olfarhors, darbo and Car_Doc like this.
    Battle of Wanat: 10 years ago last 13 July, 1LT Brostram was killed in combat killing the last enemy combatant in the outpost. The LT went to the point of decision and made the difference that turned the tide of the battle. The original investigation found the Bde Cmdr, the Bn Cmdr and the Co Cmdr at fault for dereliction of duty. If you want to see what a sarcastic silver star citation reads like, pull up the company commander's silver star.

  6. #85
    Senior Member
    Member #
    5811
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,758
    Liked
    3946 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
    I think it was "excessive" in that it doesn't take that many bullets hitting a man to kill him.

    I can understand being overcome by adrenaline, however.

    But I hope I'd pause a moment to assess the situation after being sure that two or three rounds had hit the torso.

    I wouldn't want to be caught in the middle of a reload if he had friends.
    Well, I've certainly heard tales from LEO about guys not going down after they had a mag put in them, but in this case, that wasn't the case. After the first few shots, he went down like he had his strings cut. Anything after that was a combination of adrenaline and insurance.
    Last edited by Zen Ape; 09-06-2019 at 05:25 PM.
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "My Administration is running like a well oiled machine." - The Donald

  7. #86
    Senior Member
    Member #
    5811
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,758
    Liked
    3946 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWolf70 View Post
    You are right, one to the back of the head as he lay there would have been enough.
    Cheese and Crackers dude. I hope you have one hell of a lawyer in your rolodex.
    GhostHorse likes this.
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "My Administration is running like a well oiled machine." - The Donald

  8. #87
    Senior Member
    Member #
    11801
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Georgia
    Posts
    34,439
    Liked
    26965 times
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWolf70 View Post
    You are right, one to the back of the head as he lay there would have been enough.
    well yea, I mean how was I suppose to know that he was going to start rolling over just as a I pulled the trigger that third time?
    Number of shots to stop someone??
    I have no idea I have seen a good many DRT from one shot and with a 22/ 25 and I have seen them still moving around with goodness knows how many shots and mad as hell to boot!
    I know for sure the most shots in one human still moving is more than 8 .
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
    Currently Professionally Retired Old Person.

  9. #88
    Senior Member
    Member #
    48273
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    526
    Liked
    539 times
    The dude came into the store with harm as his agenda. He got what was coming to him. Justified!
    BigBlue likes this.

  10. #89
    Senior Member
    Member #
    1005
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Alabama Foothills
    Posts
    12,654
    Liked
    10946 times
    I forget the woman's name but back in the 1970s, two German Politzei (Police Officers) killed a Bader-Meinhof terrorist. If I remember right, they shot her at least 10 times and every shot was a head shot taken as she went for another gun (there were more than 5 handguns hidden around the house) they said. The gun fight started in an apartment building stairwell and spread into her apartment. The Nuremberg Police Chief came on television and explained what happened since there was not much left of her head.
    Battle of Wanat: 10 years ago last 13 July, 1LT Brostram was killed in combat killing the last enemy combatant in the outpost. The LT went to the point of decision and made the difference that turned the tide of the battle. The original investigation found the Bde Cmdr, the Bn Cmdr and the Co Cmdr at fault for dereliction of duty. If you want to see what a sarcastic silver star citation reads like, pull up the company commander's silver star.

  11. #90
    Senior Member
    Member #
    50809
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,598
    Liked
    7050 times
    I might suppose it could get sticky for the clerk if he'd moved to stand over the robber and pumped shots into him, but it appeared the clerk's only movement before shooting to slide lock was to keep the robber in sight after he'd dropped to the floor.

    Don't know the clerk -- if he's a stone-cold-steely-eyed-icewater-in-the-veins type, or if he gets sad if a butterfly kamikazes into his bicycle headlight.

    But it doesn't seem unreasonable that a regular person in this situation would respond in a similar manner to the response of trained professional LEOs, by emptying the magazine. Especially considering that even after he was down, the robber kept moving, even if that movement was in response to bullet impacts.

    Something easy to see on a video doesn't mean it's easy to realize when in the fight and juiced on adrenaline.

    Another aspect regarding prosecution is the message that's sent to the clerks and robbers that go to work the next day. Accepting the clerk's actions as justified gives other robbers a different risk/reward calculation to think about.
    olfarhors and WoodyUSSLUCE like this.
    Most stereotypes come from how you treated the last person who didn't know you.

 

 
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads | My Threads | My Posts

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •