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Red Flag Laws will backfire

5K views 62 replies 26 participants last post by  kmw1954 
#1 ·
I rarely post articles but with all the knee jerk reactions going on about the recent shootings, it's looking like red flag laws will be some sort of twisted compromise. This article is well done and well researched and I thought it was worth passing along and getting everyone's thoughts. Spoiler alert: I think they're a very bad idea.

https://noqreport.com/2019/08/06/three-reasons-red-flag-gun-laws-will-backfire/
 
#2 ·
May be a good idea but it will never work and is too ripe for legal abuse. This is another lawyer scam. Make a charge, take them to court and make them hire an attorney to defend themselves. Then go to court again to regain your legal property!

How do you prevent a bitter spouse from filing a claim to gain an advantage in a divorce or custody hearing? How do you prevent this from becoming a neighbor dispute?
 
#4 ·
Very true about the neighbor dispute. A guy I work with had that happen to him. His neighbor is a big time Democrat, lives on some sort of government disability, and tends to have a couple of junk cars around. Well, this guy I work with asked him one time to pull one of these cars out from in front of his house because it had been setting there for over a week. The neighbor tells him to "piss off" because it is out on the road and that is where it's gonna sit for now.

Well, he notified the police that a car had been setting along the road, and it had no plates or anything, so the cops "tagged" it, and the guy had to move it. About a month later, the police show up at his door and said they had a complaint that my coworker had "threatened" to shoot one of his neighbors. He is not that sort of a gun owner. Anyways, they told him they were collecting his firearms, had some sort of order from a judge, and they did.

He ended up having to go to court to settle the matter and get his guns back. Costed him lawyer fees and a couple of months of his time. He is a veteran like me, but that made no difference to the courts I guess. He did get his property back, but still had to go through all the BS. I couldn't believe it at first, but it happened to him.

Still has that crap eating neighbor too.
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation! I proudly wear the same labels as you with my service being..USN 68-88. Yes, but how do you stop a bat crazy family member that is a real danger from killing the spouse and children? This subject really is one that needs a lot....and I mean A LOT of attention. Republicans and Democrats have to stop the impasse and be willing to compromise in developing a real workable solution to this. It is complicated. I can not even come close to seeing a real law that will eliminate innocent gun owners from being screwed by lies and unjust emotional fear by people, but someone needs to find a way. The other gun laws we have or ones proposed....nothing but political agenda stuff!
 
#11 ·
I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation! I proudly wear the same labels as you with my service being..USN 68-88. Yes, but how do you stop a bat crap crazy family member that is a real danger from killing the spouse and children? This subject really is one that needs a lot....and I mean A LOT of attention. Republicans and Democrats have to stop the impasse and be willing to compromise in developing a real workable solution to this. It is complicated. I can not even come close to seeing a real law that will eliminate innocent gun owners from being screwed by lies and unjust emotional fear by people, but someone needs to find a way. The other gun laws we have or ones proposed....nothing but political agenda BS!
I'm with you 100%. Something does need to be done to stop this carnage and more gun laws are not the only answer. Seams our Moral Compass is also broken. A Human Life has no value to many of these people. We have lost out Fear of God and even the possibility that God exists.
 
#5 ·
I'm opposed of any "laws" that infringe on our 2nd Amendment, but I have to accept the fact that changes are going to be made. Band-aid "fixes" only allow a foot in the door, but the red flag law might be the lesser of alternative evils. Including protections from frivolous actions might make the law more "acceptable". Our existing laws haven't prevented any mass shootings, and new ones won't either. Question for those in the know - why isn't there mandatory jail time for gun related felonies ?? Seems to me, if I knew that if I used a gun to commit a crime and knew that I'd be spending a full 5 - 10 years behind bars, without parole, I'd sure think differently. Maybe too simple, or maybe unfair for the unwashed.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The issue is, this is entirely to easy to abuse, it hearkens back to mccarthyism, all someone needs to do is make a accusation valid or not, and your labeled a threat and your guns are confiscated, and likely you will have to either go to a "specialist" for "help" or actually be placed in detention. And your rights wont be returned until some mental health "professional" says you are of sound mind again. These being the same people who come up with new mental illnesses for kicks or perhaps given some i have heard of, a drinking bet

I have heard that one thing being batted around is, making mass shootings a crime that brings the death penilty back on the table, not sure what good it will do when we consider it is very rare for a mass shooter to survive, they usually kill themselves or force the police to do it.

Universal background checks are another thing im hearing allot of, personally i dont have any issues with this one, id never sell to a person who didnt want to take one, or buy from someone who didn't want me to.

I could also see adding something to the check system that applied the laws of your state of residence to your check regardless of what state you are in when you buy, that would shut up places like CA and NY saying people just cross the boarder to buy the gun. Honestly i was surprised to learn this wasnt already in place.
 
#8 ·
well universal background checks may be one of those innocent, sounds like a good idea things but its really in the details.
Like here in MY State IF you have a carry permit there is no requirement for a background check, simply because the permit background check is better . more reliable than the fed background check.
then they get it passed and their greedy little hands will want to begin charging for it.
remember if its a universal background check then we in the free states may have to comply with the background checks and rules set up in Kalifornia, Illinois, or New jersey.
personally i have (or was) in public Safety for 32 years, never been locked up, never had a warrant against me, been to many different places for training in many different secured locations, was in charge (with 2 othr captains) of one of the olympic venues as fire public/safety and under went a fed background check, and have had a concealed permit for decades, have had arrest powers, so really I don't think I really need a background check to purchase a weapon.
IF I commit a felony then I lose my conceal permit and that means then I must have a federal background check.
 
#22 ·
So I have one question... would you sale one of your guns to a person you did not know or could not verify they were legally allowed to own a gun? Even if they showed a CC license, it could be invalid. They may have a felony warrant out on them and you would never know.....I am sure your LGS feels the same when they sell you or I a gun.
 
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#9 ·
Well, I’ve said it before and will say it again: the Patriot Act needs to be repealed. It has become an enormous affront to the American citizens. Whenever “We The People” are at risk of loss of their 4A and due process rights and susceptible to actions of poor information and even worse communication, it is bad legislation.
 
#10 ·
I would be more in favor of a changed background check than these RED FLAG Laws. There is just too much room for abuse by everyone, citizens that make the complaint, Law enforcement which I can think of dozens of excuses they would use. Courts, you could get a liberal judge that dislikes guns or even just your politics. Then Come the Drs., lawyers and insurance thief's.

The biggest hold back to a Comprehensive Background Check is in the laws on the books, HIPAA Privacy in particular. As long as a persons mental heath or stability cannot be established then the check can only tell us if you've ever been arrested or Dishonorably Discharged from the military. I haven't actually checked facts but if I recall correctly the last 5 shooters all obtained their guns legally and passed a background check. As a matter of fact I cannot recall any of these shooters that obtained their guns illegally or questionably! Other than the Texas church shooter and the factory worker in Illinois that his FIOD was mishandled.
 
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#12 ·
I’m fine with it. To many instances where these people have made past comments or threats or in some cases even been confronted by authorities and years later pull off a mass shooting. The Ohio kid had a kill list and rape list back in high school was disciplined in school and questioned by the authorities because of it. A person like that should have been flagged and not allowed to buy a gun period. I’m all for 2nd amendment and legal gun ownership but if you make credible threats then your days of gun ownership should go bye bye.
 
#13 ·
I'm not so sure about that. I'd say that if he went or was forced to go to psychiatric treatment, that is a credible threat and as far as I'm concerned, you can start infringing his rights if he hasn't shown any improvement by the time he can legally buy a gun. Having a list, of whatever kind, could lead to him being required to have treatment, but if it isn't, then I sure wouldn't call that a credible threat. I'm not sure what I'd call it, but even the police will tell you that you can't arrest somebody or infringe their rights because they are considering doing something. That happens every day.
 
#14 ·
we have over 40 THOUSAND gun laws on the Books in the US. Not a single one of those "well intentioned" laws prevented the shootings in El Paso or Dayton and haven't stopped the weekly carnage in places like Chicago. If a person has made the decision to kill, maim or injure a large group of people, the weapon is a secondary thought. For El Paso, he was right near an international border checkpoint. The death toll would have been MUCH higher if he drove a truck into the crowds of people coming or going from Mexico. There's a million different chemical weapons you can make with household chemicals. There's means of creating and utilizing biological weapons and killing people in short order. The point is, the gun was an available choice the killer had. I can literally walk into any walmart in the US and get the materials needed to kill everyone in that store LEGALLY. If I can find out how to do it without having a degree in Chemistry than a million + others can look it up on the internet and follow a step by step on their iphones.
The only way to prevent a crazy person from harming large groups of people is to remove that person from society. If you're going to deprive a person of their freedoms, you damned sure better have just cause. a group of whiny libs isn't just cause. They say Freedom is dangerous. I would rather live with the dangers of freedom than the safety of enslavement.
 
#20 ·
Here is what I think is happening. The Left is trying to get Trump to pass gun control laws, so they get what they want on his watch, he loses his base and loses the election. Then, when they come in power, they finish the job using these Mickey Mouse routines like "red flag" laws, and have an outright ban on semi-auto rifles and such, then go all in and ban handgun ownership too.

This is what I think they are planning/hoping/pushing for. I hope I'm wrong, but I still feel there is a certain amount of "orchestration" going on with all these mass shootings. They are all pretty much being carried out by Left Wing people.
 
#21 ·
Any law is bad if it is abused with no consequence to the persons abusing it. Like the fisa warrants in D.C.
If you give penalties for abuse real teeth but with this "red flag" BS they are missing many things more than teeth.
Due process, taking away a constitutional right by hear say. If the person is said to be a danger to himself or others take them not there rights. 72 hour lock up for evaluation. If found to be mentally ill well now you have cause. To take away there constitutional rights and leave them unarmed is a danger to them and everyones rights.
A gun is not dangerous, Do not take it. The person is the danger, Take them.
This red flag law is flawed.
 
#24 ·
its intersting how people can be attracted to shiny objects and loose focus.
for example these mass shootings and all the rage , media attention, and out cry.
yet many, many more killings and injuries occur in just one major city in the USA and yet not nearly the amount of discussion over those lives lost and injured.
and most of those are not by assault weapons jsut saying so is a life more important, you get more points for media coverage if it happens to be in a mass shooting?
how many people,are considered a mass?
just saying, gun control measures maybe should involve all killings/ shootings?
kind of interesting that many of the prime speakers of what needs to be done are officials, politicians from the very cities where most of the killings are at, yet no action from them in their own back yards.
 
#25 ·
I think it's ironic that our colleges today teach students it's okay to be "triggered" by just about anything. In fact they encourage it. They are provided with quiet rooms, cry rooms, you name it. They are encouraged to totally freak out if anything offends then in any way. They are training future shooters.

All of this is a paradox anyway. As it has been pointed out, more people die in places like Chicago every weekend than died in these shootings. It's entirely about politics. No one cares that the cities with the toughest gun laws have the most homicides. It's all a game to them.

Another random thought. I heard Mike Rowe on the news mention something that struck me. He made a statement which was not in context with any shootings. He said the phrase "if it saves just one life" is overused. He said if life were so precious to everyone we would all be driving around in bubble wrapped cars at 5 mph. The point being we all take risks every single day that could be prevented if we would completely change our habits. We assume the risk.
 
#26 ·
INVALID...I did not say fake. Invalid in a sense it has been revoked. "but yes I would sale a firearm to an individual without them even having a carry permit as long as I knew or were assured they could legally own the firearm.
it is not required that one have a carry permit to buy a weapon here.
and there is ALWAYS a bill of sale with proper ID before any gun goes anywhere." Which brings me back to ...HOW would you know and how is a bill of sale any use in not handling over a firearm to felon on the run? I am not talking about merely covering your six with a bill of sale. I think that is why there is such a push for ending private gun sales........which still is a moot if people think this will prevent a criminal from buying a gun to kill with. I will concede though background checks ain't foolproof by any means....but then again, that is what is being worked on to make them better and more accurate to detect a person not qualified to own a firearm. 100% fool proof...will never happen. A criminal will buy and a criminal will sale without obeying any law. That is what hurts legal and honest gun owners like us in the long run.
 
#33 ·
INVALID...I did not say fake. Invalid in a sense it has been revoked. "but yes I would sale a firearm to an individual without them even having a carry permit as long as I knew or were assured they could legally own the firearm.
it is not required that one have a carry permit to buy a weapon here.
and there is ALWAYS a bill of sale with proper ID before any gun goes anywhere." Which brings me back to ...HOW would you know and how is a bill of sale any use in not handling over a firearm to felon on the run? I am not talking about merely covering your six with a bill of sale. I think that is why there is such a push for ending private gun sales........which still is a moot if people think this will prevent a criminal from buying a gun to kill with. I will concede though background checks ain't foolproof by any means....but then again, that is what is being worked on to make them better and more accurate to detect a person not qualified to own a firearm. 100% fool proof...will never happen. A criminal will buy and a criminal will sale without obeying any law. That is what hurts legal and honest gun owners like us in the long run.
ahh, well in this arguement/discussion how does anyone know that anyone else is a certain anything?
MY responsibility and feelings are to attempt to verify to my satisfaction that I am not selling a bad guy a firearm, nor to a unstable person.
the reason for a bill of sale , which has the identity and offers place of residence of the buyer covers my liability, responsibility and peace of mine.
IF it works for a FFL then it works for me.
same way IF I sold an automobile to a person.
really don't understand what any of this has to do with the discussion however?
by the way Gerome down at Vine City Cadilliac Trunk Gun Shop does not require any type of identification, maybe you are thinking about him or his associates?
 
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#28 ·
Quick question to anyone in the know.

If a patient/citizen is adjudicated as mentally “challenged?” - why does this info not get forwarded to NICS? There is a question on the 4473 asking if you/the purchaser have ever been adjudicated as potentially mentally unsafe; while you/the purchaser answering the question you could outright lie and answer “No” despite the truth being “Yes”. But, the call to NICS should fill the seller/FFL in on the fact that the potential purchaser HAS been adjudicated as weapon unsafe.

I’m bringing this up because it seems that any info required for “red flag laws” has already been built into the act of purchasing a firearm. If the mom of the El Paso shooter had filed a restraining order against her son on the basis of her claimed “immaturity level and level of inexperience with use of AK type weapons” then would that restraining order not have prevented his purchase of a firearm? And, if she had filed the same restraining order (or one restricting her son from possession of a firearm within 100 feet of her) not have taken care of the problem after the purchase?

It just seems that the laws to restrict purchase (and/or intervene if a firearm has already been purchased) of guns is already in place - just no one seems to want to enforce those laws. I forget the exact numbers but it seems that follow up prosecution of folks committing a felony by lying on their 4473 is quite low - something like < 4%.

I know that “swatting” of Open carriers finally got addressed after LEO raised a stink about their time being wasted and innocent people were suddenly being exposed to lethal actions. It was declared illegal with some big fines and punishment attached to it.

Bottom line, we need to do a better job interceding BEFORE a gun is illegally bought rather than encroaching on citizens’ rights after legal purchase is done.
 
#29 ·
Quick question to anyone in the know.

If a patient/citizen is adjudicated as mentally “challenged?” - why does this info not get forwarded to NICS?

Bottom line, we need to do a better job interceding BEFORE a gun is illegally bought rather than encroaching on citizens’ rights after legal purchase is done.
See we actually do agree! It's all in how it is expressed.

Once again do yourself a search on HIPAA Privacy Laws. Most were written to protect the mentally disabled/challenged/defective. It also protects all sorts of other heath record from what can be disclosed w/o the consent of the patient. For instant let's say I have a heart condition and doing certain types or amounts of work could cause server injury or death. The patient can have that information with held to protect their job or job prospect even though that job may kill them. Same can be said about allergies.

What we need is a better job of Interceding BEFORE A LEGAL purchase can be made by a person that should be restricted at that time. If treatment will repair the problem then the person should be re-evaluated and his Rights restored. And restored w/o a year long bunch of hearings by some court commissioner or third rate shrink.

I have also voiced that these RED FLAG laws scare the help out of me. There is just too much room for abuse.
 
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#30 ·
I don't like the the Red Flag Law because it would make it too easy for someone to jerk you around just for the heck of it if they think you wronged them somewhere down the line, and a lot of us don't have the money to go hire a lawyer. If it can be abused it will be abused people are like that. What some of the people are saying doing and calling for is way off the charts
 
#38 · (Edited by Moderator)
Saw this an I guess it is the best description of why these laws are Red Flag Laws are hated and apt to fail. Here’s what will happen...

It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...

0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh crap!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town!

Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.

Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?

Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.

Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental illnesses caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 22 guns were confiscated from your residence”.
Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around.

This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws. Innocent people will lose their lives. Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.
 
#49 · (Edited by Moderator)
Saw this an I guess it is the best description of why these laws are Red Flag Laws are hated and apt to fail. Here’s what will happen...

It’s a Sunday night and your family has all gone to bed. You let the dogs back in and lock the deadbolt like you do every night. All the lights are off now except a couple of night lights scattered throughout the house leaving that dim glow throughout your home. It’s bedtime and work and school are going to come early in the morning. You crawl in bed, kiss your wife and drift off to sleep being thankful for the air conditioning that allows you to pull that heavy quilt up over your shoulder despite the fact it’s still 85 degrees outside. A few hours pass...

0200 Monday morning and your wife taps your leg and says, “baby I heard something outside”. As you sit up in bed you hear the dog growling in the living room and you know something isn’t right. You grab that trusty ole 870 and head into the living room. Your wife grabs her 9mm and heads down the hall to the kids rooms just like you have rehearsed. “Good boy” you say as you enter the living room, trying to calm both the dog and your wife just as splinters fly across the room and the front door flys open. “Oh crap!” As you shoulder your weapon and send a load of 00 Buck across your living room and see the perpetrator fall in a heap. Before the “thank God” can even run across your brain, you see a second man coming in the door and you fire again. This time you hear the pop of your wife’s 9mm as she has joined in the fight. It has to be those damn meth heads from down in town!

Just then you are consumed by a wall of bullets as you see multiple muzzle flashes from just outside the door and you realize something isn’t right. You turn to yell at your wife to “get down” just in time to see her take a load of buckshot to the face and her brain matter splatter the wall behind her. You feel the burning as 5.56 bullets Riddle your body. One clips your spine as you’re scrambling away and paralyzes your lower body. The last thing you see before you bleed out is a SWAT guy from your local PD holding your teenage daughter on the floor with a knee in her back as she screams and cry’s because she just watched her parents being murdered.

Why did this happen? You’re no criminal. You’re a Conservative and an honest family man. Your wife is a school teacher and your daughters are on honor roll. Why did this happen?

Well two days ago, you and your wife went down to welcome the new neighbors to the community. Your wife made them some of her “world famous” cookies and you invited them to church on Sunday. Later that afternoon, you got a friend request on Facebook from your new neighbor, which you gladly accepted. They seemed a little odd, but in the few minutes you talked they were pleasant enough. The next day while you and your family sat in church, your new neighbor scrolled through your Facebook profile. He saw that “Trump 2020” post and got infuriated. See, he’s a staunch liberal and he hates your kind. The next thing he sees are the hunting pictures you took last fall when your daughter bagged her first buck. Now he’s seething with fury because he is wholeheartedly against the “slaughter of innocent animals”. Next he sees your post from the last range day with your buddy and sees those scary black assault weapons on the table and that does it! He has to do something about the racist domestic terrorist living next door. He picks up the phone, calls the local Sheriffs Office and reports you as a threat under the new Red Flag law. The SO follows their SOP’s and conducts a no knock warrant because you have now been denied due process and you are considered guilty until proven innocent.

Now you, your lovely wife and two deputies have been killed for nothing. Your daughter will have absolute hell for the rest of her life. She will never be that successful person you dreamed for her to be because of the mental illnesses caused from seeing her parents murdered. The local news paper will report that you were killed after firing on and killing two deputies and that “over a thousand rounds of ammo and 22 guns were confiscated from your residence”.
Oh, those two deputies were just following orders. They left behind families as well and had served their community for over a decade. They didn’t know you were a stand-up guy with a great family. They weren’t allowed time to investigate things under due process. They were told you had threatened your neighbor and were out in the street waving an AR15 around.

This is the reality of Red Flag gun laws. Innocent people will lose their lives. Red Flag laws will be used for petty and vengeful reasons without merit.
The moral of this story? Turn all your guns in now.
 
#40 ·
Daytona, I've wondered too why they can't just tie mental health records to the federal background check system - I've always guessed that medical records are more difficult to report in, or they really have no way of categorizing them in a way where a patient is rated a danger to buy a gun. If there were a good, and honest, way to do it, I wouldn't be opposed to relaxing HIIPA laws for that purpose. However....here is where politicians can ruin the entire thing. Exactly what gets reported as a person who is a danger to himself or others isn't necessarily up to the doctor, it's what politicians say it means. So, if I went to see a psychiatrist as, for example, part of a family issue or discussion, and the doctor put my name into the database as part of that discussion or session, and it fed up to NICS, who's to say that I wouldn't be prohibited from buying a firearm the next time I want to? Or, that it flagged me with my local PD and they came and took my guns away? I don't like the idea of my gun ownership being decided at the whim of a politician in Washington, no not one bit.

Until they figure out a way to fix that, and guarantee that it won't happen, and that people who do legitimately have their guns taken away have a path to getting their guns back at some point that doesn't involve them spending thousands of dollars in legal fees, then I'd be opposed to the whole thing.
 
#44 ·
I believe that question is key to improving background checks. It would almost take psychiatrists etc to have a firearm box on a check off form. You certainly can't flag everyone who goes to a shrink because their kid is having trouble in school. I don't see that every happening. It will remain a mystery and they will keep imposing roadblocks that make it harder for good people to get guns. I mean, that's their plan anyway isn't it?
 
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