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Thread: Red Flag Laws will backfire

  1. #21
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    Any law is bad if it is abused with no consequence to the persons abusing it. Like the fisa warrants in D.C.
    If you give penalties for abuse real teeth but with this "red flag" BS they are missing many things more than teeth.
    Due process, taking away a constitutional right by hear say. If the person is said to be a danger to himself or others take them not there rights. 72 hour lock up for evaluation. If found to be mentally ill well now you have cause. To take away there constitutional rights and leave them unarmed is a danger to them and everyones rights.
    A gun is not dangerous, Do not take it. The person is the danger, Take them.
    This red flag law is flawed.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    well universal background checks may be one of those innocent, sounds like a good idea things but its really in the details.
    Like here in MY State IF you have a carry permit there is no requirement for a background check, simply because the permit background check is better . more reliable than the fed background check.
    then they get it passed and their greedy little hands will want to begin charging for it.
    remember if its a universal background check then we in the free states may have to comply with the background checks and rules set up in Kalifornia, Illinois, or New jersey.
    personally i have (or was) in public Safety for 32 years, never been locked up, never had a warrant against me, been to many different places for training in many different secured locations, was in charge (with 2 othr captains) of one of the olympic venues as fire public/safety and under went a fed background check, and have had a concealed permit for decades, have had arrest powers, so really I don't think I really need a background check to purchase a weapon.
    IF I commit a felony then I lose my conceal permit and that means then I must have a federal background check.
    So I have one question... would you sale one of your guns to a person you did not know or could not verify they were legally allowed to own a gun? Even if they showed a CC license, it could be invalid. They may have a felony warrant out on them and you would never know.....I am sure your LGS feels the same when they sell you or I a gun.
    taurustoter likes this.
    "She said her name was Emergency and asked to see my gun....said her telephone number was 911"




  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark7mod0 View Post
    So I have one question... would you sale one of your guns to a person you did not know or could not verify they were legally allowed to own a gun? Even if they showed a CC license, it could be invalid. They may have a felony warrant out on them and you would never know.....I am sure your LGS feels the same when they sell you or I a gun.
    ahh, first why would someone go to the trouble to make a fake carry license?
    secondly they likely provide a better true ID than a state drivers license.
    our carry permits require a back ground check, application at the Probate court and include all the latest greatest anti conterfeit measures.
    so very unlikely that anyone would try to make a fake.
    but anyway to answer your question, first I don't really sale many firearm, but yes I would sale a firearm to an individual without them even having a carry permit as long as I knew or were assured they could legally own the firearm.
    it is not required that one have a carry permit to buy a weapon here.
    and there is ALWAYS a bill of sale with proper ID before any gun goes anywhere.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
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  5. #24
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    its intersting how people can be attracted to shiny objects and loose focus.
    for example these mass shootings and all the rage , media attention, and out cry.
    yet many, many more killings and injuries occur in just one major city in the USA and yet not nearly the amount of discussion over those lives lost and injured.
    and most of those are not by assault weapons jsut saying so is a life more important, you get more points for media coverage if it happens to be in a mass shooting?
    how many people,are considered a mass?
    just saying, gun control measures maybe should involve all killings/ shootings?
    kind of interesting that many of the prime speakers of what needs to be done are officials, politicians from the very cities where most of the killings are at, yet no action from them in their own back yards.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
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  6. #25
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    I think it's ironic that our colleges today teach students it's okay to be "triggered" by just about anything. In fact they encourage it. They are provided with quiet rooms, cry rooms, you name it. They are encouraged to totally freak out if anything offends then in any way. They are training future shooters.

    All of this is a paradox anyway. As it has been pointed out, more people die in places like Chicago every weekend than died in these shootings. It's entirely about politics. No one cares that the cities with the toughest gun laws have the most homicides. It's all a game to them.

    Another random thought. I heard Mike Rowe on the news mention something that struck me. He made a statement which was not in context with any shootings. He said the phrase "if it saves just one life" is overused. He said if life were so precious to everyone we would all be driving around in bubble wrapped cars at 5 mph. The point being we all take risks every single day that could be prevented if we would completely change our habits. We assume the risk.
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  7. #26
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    INVALID...I did not say fake. Invalid in a sense it has been revoked. "but yes I would sale a firearm to an individual without them even having a carry permit as long as I knew or were assured they could legally own the firearm.
    it is not required that one have a carry permit to buy a weapon here.
    and there is ALWAYS a bill of sale with proper ID before any gun goes anywhere." Which brings me back to ...HOW would you know and how is a bill of sale any use in not handling over a firearm to felon on the run? I am not talking about merely covering your six with a bill of sale. I think that is why there is such a push for ending private gun sales........which still is a moot if people think this will prevent a criminal from buying a gun to kill with. I will concede though background checks ain't foolproof by any means....but then again, that is what is being worked on to make them better and more accurate to detect a person not qualified to own a firearm. 100% fool proof...will never happen. A criminal will buy and a criminal will sale without obeying any law. That is what hurts legal and honest gun owners like us in the long run.
    "She said her name was Emergency and asked to see my gun....said her telephone number was 911"




  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonaredeye View Post
    Yeah. Don’t look now but the goobermint has been legislating morality for darn near 60 years now. Look no further than the dawn of broadcast TV to look at how this has been done.

    We need to be careful not to get caught up in the old “The good of the many is more important than the good of the few” mentality.

    Thus my criticism for the Patriot Act. And it applies to any government supported program designed to “intervene” before any act takes place. Besides, the programs they already have in effect, designed to spot trouble, haven’t exactly bloomed to produce any effective outcomes.
    Well the "gooberment" as you put it had been failing tremendously then. Back in the 60's/70's Adult Theaters were Taboo as were the movies they showed. Ask Nixon. Yet today you can find soft porn an any cable channel. Back then one couldn't say crap w/o a bleep. Today they use much harsher language on the broadcast news! I could give many examples of controlled and uncontrolled speech but we don't have the time or the bandwidth.

    I am not one of those what if ism or how about ism nor do I subscribe to the "if it saves just one life" mantra.

    I have also been vocal in the fact that I believe Background Checks, the way the are done today and the information they provide is a complete and useless waste of time and resources. Yes I believe that if you can detect someone with bad intentions before they act then we should. Foreign Terrorist, Domestic Terrorist, no distinction. If I have a personal bone to pick with you and someone else can prove that I intend you harm then I should be stopped.

    Once again, James Holmes was known by his doctor to be a danger to himself and others yet that doctor by law was prevented from reporting what they knew. A lot of people suffered because of that. The Fla school shooter had documented incidents of troubled behavior that should have stopped him. Another whole bunch of people suffered because of it. If these people have behavioral problems then take them out of society don't give them guns!
    muddcatt54 likes this.
    I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
    I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation!
    When they can figure out how to legislate Morality and Conscience I will consider talking more gun laws.


    Join the fun!

  9. #28
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    Quick question to anyone in the know.

    If a patient/citizen is adjudicated as mentally “challenged?” - why does this info not get forwarded to NICS? There is a question on the 4473 asking if you/the purchaser have ever been adjudicated as potentially mentally unsafe; while you/the purchaser answering the question you could outright lie and answer “No” despite the truth being “Yes”. But, the call to NICS should fill the seller/FFL in on the fact that the potential purchaser HAS been adjudicated as weapon unsafe.

    I’m bringing this up because it seems that any info required for “red flag laws” has already been built into the act of purchasing a firearm. If the mom of the El Paso shooter had filed a restraining order against her son on the basis of her claimed “immaturity level and level of inexperience with use of AK type weapons” then would that restraining order not have prevented his purchase of a firearm? And, if she had filed the same restraining order (or one restricting her son from possession of a firearm within 100 feet of her) not have taken care of the problem after the purchase?

    It just seems that the laws to restrict purchase (and/or intervene if a firearm has already been purchased) of guns is already in place - just no one seems to want to enforce those laws. I forget the exact numbers but it seems that follow up prosecution of folks committing a felony by lying on their 4473 is quite low - something like < 4%.

    I know that “swatting” of Open carriers finally got addressed after LEO raised a stink about their time being wasted and innocent people were suddenly being exposed to lethal actions. It was declared illegal with some big fines and punishment attached to it.

    Bottom line, we need to do a better job interceding BEFORE a gun is illegally bought rather than encroaching on citizens’ rights after legal purchase is done.
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonaredeye View Post
    Quick question to anyone in the know.

    If a patient/citizen is adjudicated as mentally “challenged?” - why does this info not get forwarded to NICS?

    Bottom line, we need to do a better job interceding BEFORE a gun is illegally bought rather than encroaching on citizens’ rights after legal purchase is done.
    See we actually do agree! It's all in how it is expressed.

    Once again do yourself a search on HIPAA Privacy Laws. Most were written to protect the mentally disabled/challenged/defective. It also protects all sorts of other heath record from what can be disclosed w/o the consent of the patient. For instant let's say I have a heart condition and doing certain types or amounts of work could cause server injury or death. The patient can have that information with held to protect their job or job prospect even though that job may kill them. Same can be said about allergies.

    What we need is a better job of Interceding BEFORE A LEGAL purchase can be made by a person that should be restricted at that time. If treatment will repair the problem then the person should be re-evaluated and his Rights restored. And restored w/o a year long bunch of hearings by some court commissioner or third rate shrink.

    I have also voiced that these RED FLAG laws scare the help out of me. There is just too much room for abuse.
    muddcatt54 likes this.
    I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
    I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation!
    When they can figure out how to legislate Morality and Conscience I will consider talking more gun laws.


    Join the fun!

  11. #30
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    I don't like the the Red Flag Law because it would make it too easy for someone to jerk you around just for the heck of it if they think you wronged them somewhere down the line, and a lot of us don't have the money to go hire a lawyer. If it can be abused it will be abused people are like that. What some of the people are saying doing and calling for is way off the charts
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