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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    OK__ First!
    I thought that there was a rule that anyone posting a math question in a post had to also put a disclaimer (warning) in the heading??
    Hmmm, I didn’t write a math question. Not sure what you’re getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    isn't that a tad fast in FPS for speed of sound?
    The speed of sound is proportional to the density of the medium. Tissue (and ballistic gel) is denser than air, so the speed of sound in tissue is significantly higher than in air; ballistic testing has shown it to be, as I said, roughly 2200fps.

  2. #42
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    Gryffin is right. The speed of sound figure people are used to seeing is the speed of sound in air. Here's a table with figures in mps, not fps, but you get the point.

    State Substance Speed in m/s
    Solids Aluminum 6420
    Nickel 6040
    Steel 5960
    Iron 5950
    Brass 4700
    Glass 3980
    Liquid Sea Water 1531
    Distilled Water 1498
    Ethanol 1207
    Methanol 1103
    Gases Hydrogen 1284
    Helium 965
    Air 346
    Oxygen 316
    Sulphur Dioxide 213

    And Gryffin's previous post is spot on about energy figures and stretching and ballistic effect. We've all stretched a rubber band, and then stretched it again to the point that it broke. Handgun bullets generally stretch the tissue a lot, but it can spring back. Rifle velocities produce stretching that exceeds the tissue's ability to spring back. This is a big part of why talking about muzzle energy or 100 yard energy or what have you in rifle rounds, and then extrapolating down to handgun ballistics like there's no real non-linear difference isn't smart. For rifle rounds, I want to know energy. For handgun rounds, I want to know momentum.

    Was there math in that? If so, pretend you saw a disclaimer.
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  3. #43
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    There is math for momentum, but Dr. Michael Courtney says energy DOES matter in handguns, especially magnum revolvers.
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  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
    I follow completely. Have been watching this discussion on AW Bans and how it has morphed into anything that is Auto, because the morons cannot differentiate between AUTO and SEMI-AUTO. Looks like they are pushing for anything that has a detachable magazine. So then what also happens to revolvers that hold more than 6 rounds and many do today? Are they now also illegal?

    Everyone can get upset with me if they like but I will openly and honestly admit that removing bump stocks didn't upset me one bit and neither would the removal of Drum type very high capacity magazines. Sorry folk but we are no longer in the 1920's fighting Capone's Gangsters with Tommy Guns!

    I have no issue with the general public owning Semi-Auto Sporting rifles/carbines with 20+ round capacity magazines. Heck as I have said before, if I lived in an area or was able to travel frequently to areas that had wild hogs running loose I could see owning one of these guns to hunt pigs with. But I don't so I don't own one. A 30cal. BAR would be a lot of fun to shoot to but that doesn't also mean I need to own one.
    You had better start giving a damn! If the goobermint starts outlawing things you don’t use and therefore don’t care about they will eventually outlaw SOMETHING you do care about!
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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
    I follow completely. Have been watching this discussion on AW Bans and how it has morphed into anything that is Auto, because the morons cannot differentiate between AUTO and SEMI-AUTO. Looks like they are pushing for anything that has a detachable magazine. So then what also happens to revolvers that hold more than 6 rounds and many do today? Are they now also illegal?

    Everyone can get upset with me if they like but I will openly and honestly admit that removing bump stocks didn't upset me one bit and neither would the removal of Drum type very high capacity magazines. Sorry folk but we are no longer in the 1920's fighting Capone's Gangsters with Tommy Guns!

    I have no issue with the general public owning Semi-Auto Sporting rifles/carbines with 20+ round capacity magazines. Heck as I have said before, if I lived in an area or was able to travel frequently to areas that had wild hogs running loose I could see owning one of these guns to hunt pigs with. But I don't so I don't own one. A 30cal. BAR would be a lot of fun to shoot to but that doesn't also mean I need to own one.
    SERIOUSLY??? How do you not see that it goes from bump stocks to drum mags to mags over ten rounds to semi-automatic weapons to all guns??? That's not an exaggeration either. A breach of rights is a breach of rights period! I personally have no interest in a bump stock or a drum mag but I fight tooth and nail to protect them.
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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC2639 View Post
    SERIOUSLY??? How do you not see that it goes from bump stocks to drum mags to mags over ten rounds to semi-automatic weapons to all guns??? That's not an exaggeration either. A breach of rights is a breach of rights period! I personally have no interest in a bump stock or a drum mag but I fight tooth and nail to protect them.
    I grant you have that right to fight, only I have a different perspective.
    We set limits on all sorts of things, How fast you can drive a car, how many drinks you can have and still drive, how many fish you can catch or how many deer you can hunt, even nature sets limits. Just because things exist doesn't mean they are a good idea. Heck I think the Atomic Bomb was a bad idea! So because they are available does that mean that every nation should have them?
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffin View Post


    The speed of sound is proportional to the density of the medium. Tissue (and ballistic gel) is denser than air, so the speed of sound in tissue is significantly higher than in air; ballistic testing has shown it to be, as I said, roughly 2200fps.
    of course!
    but just out of curiosity isn't a projectile normally going through the air until it reaches a object?
    I mean I guess I could figure out how fast a projectile would travel on the moon but I fail to see where that has much to do with actual usage here on earth?
    just saying it kind of confuses us of smaller grey matter.
    I guess it might apply to the few that fire guns underwater in the moves if we knew how fast the projectile was traveling in water?
    adding more things that are variable to the discussion to me doesn't do much except add more confusion to the discussion.
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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativeTexan View Post
    There is math for momentum, but Dr. Michael Courtney says energy DOES matter in handguns, especially magnum revolvers.
    everyone has an opinion, heres mine!
    basically if it hurts then it has an effect on a mammal, whether its cutting your finger with a knife, hitting your thumb with a hammer, or being hit by a flying object.
    pain causes discomfort and stress, you apply enough pain and you go into shock.
    but to me any pain that you can cause an assailant is in your favor.
    the discussion to me is only how much pain is the object going to cause.
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