Folks really need to stop associating self-defense with their own self-esteem. - Page 3
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Thread: Folks really need to stop associating self-defense with their own self-esteem.

  1. #21
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    I take it from the other direction,

    Them, "What do you carry?"

    Me, "a 9mm."

    Them, "What's wrong with .40 and .45?"

    Me, "I don't own a .40, and don't plan on it, I do have .45's"

    Them, "Why don't you carry a .45?"

    Me, "I do better under pressure with follow up shots, from a 9mm, than with a .45"

    Them, "That doesn't make sense, I do much better with a .40 or .45, and can't hit anything with a 9mm"

    At this point I realize they know nothing about physics and have never competed or had to protect themselves from a dog attack (Two Rottweilers at once) or a pit bull. I just recently beat one of these people badly at a steel plate shoot, using a 10mm, and ran the course even faster with a 9mm.

    I use to carry a .45 or .357, still occasionally do, but for me I settled on 9mm 124 or 147 grain +P. Also use them year round. Winter clothing really only affects hollow point ammo and can reduce its effectiveness.

    I really don't care what caliber you use, shooting sports and self defense is 90% mental. If you have faith in your choices and understand them, you will do well.

    On the other hand, if you use anything less than a CZ or Tanfoglio, Olfarhors and I will pray for your soul.

    Maloy
    olfarhors and Kevin Keith like this.

  2. #22
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    Interesting discussion, maloy. You've got some things very right, and I'd say you aren't 100% right either. I'm not claiming to know for sure, but here are my thoughts.

    Anyone who says their experience shooting certain calibers better proves that you are wrong doesn't sound very convincing to me. Maybe they've never found a 9mm that fits their hand well, or maybe they have tried lots of big, heavy, recoil absorbing .4x guns, but only ultralightweight, hard kicking 9mm guns. But that also doesn't prove they "know nothing about physics."

    Turning the coin, was the person shooting 10mm that you beat as experienced as you at competition in general? Did they have as much time with their gun as you do with yours?

    And competition definitely tells us something about performance under pressure, and follow up shot speed, but it tells you nothing at all about terminal performance. Physics has a word or two to say about that as well. In fact, the demands of competition push shooters toward the lightest shooting round they can use. I bet you'd do even better with a .22. That doesn't mean you should carry one for self defense.

    I won't question your statement that performance in a shooting sport is 90% mental. But as for self defense, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. From what I've read written by experienced, knowledgeable people I trust, many attacks are stopped by the attacker realizing they have been shot, and giving up right then and there, just because they've been shot. It could be a shot in the arm with a .32, it doesn't matter.

    It's the other perps where caliber matters. And for those types, history has given us some proven rounds. .45 Colt, .45 ACP, maybe .44 Special, 158 grain .38 Special, and .357 Magnum. 9mm has never made it onto that list. I've seen a lot of ballistic gel, but that's it. I carry 9mm at times, but it's a compromise. I'll never, ever claim that it's as good as .40, .44 or .45. If you have faith in your choices for good reason, you'll do well. Having faith in .32 FMJ does nothing to increase the effectiveness of the round.

    But again, I don't claim to have gospel from the mountain. This is just the result of second hand study, and my own knowledge of physics and human anatomy.
    "It is wonderful, in the event of a street fight, how few bullets seem to hit the men they are aimed at." Ranch Life and the Hunting Trail, Theodore Roosevelt, 1888

  3. #23
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    Tuco these days there are only 4 gun forums that I actively visit with this being one and another is Cast Boolits because it is pretty specialized as to the content.

    Three things I have learned over the past few years are these unless one is looking for an argument; Don't talk Concealed Carry, Don't talk Self Defense, Don't talk magazine capacity and don't talk Reloading Presses.

    I have expressed here and a few other places that I Do Not Conceal Carry and feel no need to ever do it and a few times I have been thoroughly flamed and burnt to the ground for expressing such a thing. Sorry folks but I just do not feel the need too. Having a gun on the nightstand is a different story. For all those that feel a need to carry, by all means do it, it is your right to do so, I just do not feel that need. As to self defense topics it's not just on the gun forums. Just read any of the comments sections to a story after a shooting. Get some real Cowboys showing up there as well.

    Next, I was just in a very heated discussion with a fellow over reloading presses. On that other forum there was a question asked by a non-reloader why there were so many different kinds of presses and why did the prices very so much. Well everyone was having a fine discussion and playing well together, doing the best we could to explain these answers to the questions. Then out of the "Blue" comes this guy and very firmly and rudely interjects that if you are going to reload then do not waste your time and money, just go out and by a Blue Dillon Progressive press because eventually you will need it! Anything else is a waste of time and money. As hard as a few of us tried we could not get thru to him that not everyone that steps up to a reloading bench needs, wants or desires a multi station progressive reloading press. Then as a few of us tried to get this thru the more belligerent he became. He even went as far as calling me out to have a PM peeing war! He then went into a very long tirade quoted and directed at me. At one point I was going to respond and discredit point by point every one of his accusations and then just decided to drop it as it wasn't worth my time and effort.

    BTW, he is still spouting but no one is listening!
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  5. #24
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    It's hard to be humble when I know everything
    yet somehow I seem to pull it off.
    darbo likes this.
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  6. #25
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    I've never claimed to be even mostly right, and as for the other person, I only know what they claimed. I know for myself, and from observation of others, recoil recovery does depend on how much mass and velocity is involved. If you base it on pure science, a 9mm 1911 will have less recoil than a .45 1911. The same holds true with .38 Super being in between.

    Now about the one person I beat, he probably doesn't practice as much as I do, and I don't practice as much as I should. He claims a Glock .45 fits his hands the best, my hands are a good bit larger, and a Glock .45 truly feels like a brick in mine.

    However, mental state has a huge impact on shooting and in self defense. Yes, it takes practice, more practice and even more practice. However, if you do not have the mental state you need, all the practice and training goes out the window. People get scared. Whether it is on the competition line, or for their life. Mental state can help determine win or loss for both.

    What the main point was, he originally was trying to convince me that his choice was better, and mine didn't make sense that if I owned .45's why did I choose to carry a 9mm.

    Maloy

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHorse View Post
    Interesting discussion, maloy. You've got some things very right, and I'd say you aren't 100% right either. I'm not claiming to know for sure, but here are my thoughts.

    Anyone who says their experience shooting certain calibers better proves that you are wrong doesn't sound very convincing to me. Maybe they've never found a 9mm that fits their hand well, or maybe they have tried lots of big, heavy, recoil absorbing .4x guns, but only ultralightweight, hard kicking 9mm guns. But that also doesn't prove they "know nothing about physics."

    Turning the coin, was the person shooting 10mm that you beat as experienced as you at competition in general? Did they have as much time with their gun as you do with yours?

    And competition definitely tells us something about performance under pressure, and follow up shot speed, but it tells you nothing at all about terminal performance. Physics has a word or two to say about that as well. In fact, the demands of competition push shooters toward the lightest shooting round they can use. I bet you'd do even better with a .22. That doesn't mean you should carry one for self defense.

    I won't question your statement that performance in a shooting sport is 90% mental. But as for self defense, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. From what I've read written by experienced, knowledgeable people I trust, many attacks are stopped by the attacker realizing they have been shot, and giving up right then and there, just because they've been shot. It could be a shot in the arm with a .32, it doesn't matter.

    It's the other perps where caliber matters. And for those types, history has given us some proven rounds. .45 Colt, .45 ACP, maybe .44 Special, 158 grain .38 Special, and .357 Magnum. 9mm has never made it onto that list. I've seen a lot of ballistic gel, but that's it. I carry 9mm at times, but it's a compromise. I'll never, ever claim that it's as good as .40, .44 or .45. If you have faith in your choices for good reason, you'll do well. Having faith in .32 FMJ does nothing to increase the effectiveness of the round.

    But again, I don't claim to have gospel from the mountain. This is just the result of second hand study, and my own knowledge of physics and human anatomy.

  7. #26
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    Carry what you want and let the whiners whine; they tend to forget the immortal words of Jack Nicholson...

    "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhite View Post
    Carry what you shoot well.

    All the Best,
    D. White
    ... Because only hits count.
    olfarhors likes this.
    Student of the ancient Chinese art of Bang Pow.

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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacher39 View Post
    It's hard to be humble when I know everything
    yet somehow I seem to pull it off.
    I've always been impressed by your humility and quiet nature.
    Student of the ancient Chinese art of Bang Pow.

    Gun Shui adviser

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant" (1933)

    Make 2020 the year of MABA- Make Alex Bartend Again.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokewagon View Post
    The way I see it, some people argue their choice, simply because they think everyone else should choose and carry what they do. When others don't, it causes them to second think their own choices. Makes them uncomfortable.

    Well the truth be honestly known!
    people argue their choice because they either don't know squat about the 38 Super, they don't own a 38 Super, its really quite simple!----
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  11. #30
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    This is why I leave the guns at home and only carry my death ray......nothin' to argue there.
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