Why Caliber Wars Do Not Matter!

[stupimlico]

Thank you, I found that VERY interesting.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[57K]

Thank you!! This fact does not get enough attention! Everyone thinks hydrostatic shock is what stops a target; out of a handgun - nah but out of a rifle - well, yeah.

Shoot an empty milk jug and you get a bullet hole. Fill that jug with water and cap it off and it’ll explode when hit by any bullet.

Yeah, but how many jugs will it do that to?

Like Grandma said, "never put all of your eggs in one basket." And remember, no one talks much about hydro-static shock these days since hydro and static create an oxy-moron.

So we need 12" of penetration" I'm good with that! I don't know my own dimensions, but I'm pretty sure a drill would go through me, front to back before 12". But wait!!! Because the FBI chose the wrong ammo that got several agents killed, no one, and I mean no one connected to that tragedy has ever taken responsibility for their selection of a soft aluminum alloy jacket known for its rapid expansion at around 1200 FPS at the muzzle? You gots to have bofs childruns. While yet today, because of IWBA BS, no one even emphasizes the importance of both combined into that rare cosmic anomaly known as momentum! And yes, that's in your reloading manual should you decide to read it, Mr. Phelps. The balance of power lies in the combination of both and how we decide to manipulate them to best effect. I've mentioned a personal minimum for my defense loads at .650 Lb-seconds. So skipping an operation or 2 I'll tell you. Bullet weight / 225218 X velocity = momentum in Lb-seconds. I think about morons like those who would ask scientists to come forward and be recognized for the Strasbourg Goat tests with no fear of PETA burning their labs down. Then the goar scientists make the same request of their detractors, the IWBA, and unfortunately they had a prior commitment. Same people who were so easily compelled so slander just a couple of working cops trying to collect data for the benefit of their fellow Americans/Shooters.

For posterity, I've mentioned elsewhere here that the Secret Service and the Illinois State Police weren't having any problem putting villains down with well constructed, basic cup and core 9 x 19mm 115 gr. JHPs that were rated +P+ that I can handload without exceeding standard pressure (35,000 PSI) to get 1350 FPS.

BUT, they're not the FBR as they were called in the most excellent black comedy titled, The President's Analyst with Jame Coburn.

You see, while we give them billions which they spend NOT investigating Ho-Larry, Benghazi, or if he/she is the Manchurian Candidate. If you consider the Clinton/Obamintion administrations either directly leaking our nuclear secrets to the PRC that advanced their nuclear warhead technology by 25 years, Or your pre-school level understanding, or worse, of US State Security while your thumb is in a precarious location, and allow the PRC to build a man made island (Uh-Hum) military base in contested waters by the Fillipino's, Vietnamese, Chinese and the surrounding Asian republics, well of course we should let let those less than 2nd grade intellects infect this country with more stupids that will never have enough savvy than to vote for their demo-commie welcoming committee. But the President of the United States who didn't sell rights to US Uranium (yellow-cake) that he/she didn't own, nor had a OKC, Ruby Ridge or Waco under his belt, or the Fast and Furious Muslim Brotherhood . . . it seems that the FBR might itself be in collusion with the demo-commie party, going back to snuffing out Vince Foster in a "National Park" . . , of course they know best and why we should follow their Bovine Scatology, rather than a heroic group of Americans that were prepared to defend Texans whenever they could, considering they were at first on horseback patrolling what? An area the size of Texas, and doing it with distinction where today a our largest security agency spies on us, of course you should heed their's or the IWBA's ballistic mantra!

In the meantime, I'll be going to the dance with the girl who brung me! Or as Colonel Cooper suggested, "To ride, shoot straight and speak the truth!" Kinda reminds me of our Texas Rangers!

[230JHP]

Yeah, but how many jugs will it do that to?

Like Grandma said, "never put all of your eggs in one basket." And remember, no one talks much about hydro-static shock these days since hydro and static create an oxy-moron.

So we need 12" of penetration" I'm good with that! I don't know my own dimensions, but I'm pretty sure a drill would go through me, front to back before 12". But wait!!! Because the FBI chose the wrong ammo that got several agents killed, no one, and I mean no one connected to that tragedy has ever taken responsibility for their selection of a soft aluminum alloy jacket known for its rapid expansion at around 1200 FPS at the muzzle? You gots to have bofs childruns. While yet today, because of IWBA BS, no one even emphasizes the importance of both combined into that rare cosmic anomaly known as momentum! And yes, that's in your reloading manual should you decide to read it, Mr. Phelps. The balance of power lies in the combination of both and how we decide to manipulate them to best effect. I've mentioned a personal minimum for my defense loads at .650 Lb-seconds. So skipping an operation or 2 I'll tell you. Bullet weight / 225218 X velocity = momentum in Lb-seconds. I think about morons like those who would ask scientists to come forward and be recognized for the Strasbourg Goat tests with no fear of PETA burning their labs down. Then the goar scientists make the same request of their detractors, the IWBA, and unfortunately they had a prior commitment. Same people who were so easily compelled so slander just a couple of working cops trying to collect data for the benefit of their fellow Americans/Shooters.

For posterity, I've mentioned elsewhere here that the Secret Service and the Illinois State Police weren't having any problem putting villains down with well constructed, basic cup and core 9 x 19mm 115 gr. JHPs that were rated +P+ that I can handload without exceeding standard pressure (35,000 PSI) to get 1350 FPS.

BUT, they're not the FBR as they were called in the most excellent black comedy titled, The President's Analyst with Jame Coburn.

You see, while we give them billions which they spend NOT investigating Ho-Larry, Benghazi, or if he/she is the Manchurian Candidate. If you consider the Clinton/Obamintion administrations either directly leaking our nuclear secrets to the PRC that advanced their nuclear warhead technology by 25 years, Or your pre-school level understanding, or worse, of US State Security while your thumb is in a precarious location, and allow the PRC to build a man made island (Uh-Hum) military base in contested waters by the Fillipino's, Vietnamese, Chinese and the surrounding Asian republics, well of course we should let let those less than 2nd grade intellects infect this country with more stupids that will never have enough savvy than to vote for their demo-commie welcoming committee. But the President of the United States who didn't sell rights to US Uranium (yellow-cake) that he/she didn't own, nor had a OKC, Ruby Ridge or Waco under his belt, or the Fast and Furious Muslim Brotherhood . . . it seems that the FBR might itself be in collusion with the demo-commie party, going back to snuffing out Vince Foster in a "National Park" . . , of course they know best and why we should follow their Bovine Scatology, rather than a heroic group of Americans that were prepared to defend Texans whenever they could, considering they were at first on horseback patrolling what? An area the size of Texas, and doing it with distinction where today a our largest security agency spies on us, of course you should heed their's or the IWBA's ballistic mantra!

In the meantime, I'll be going to the dance with the girl who brung me! Or as Colonel Cooper suggested, "To ride, shoot straight and speak the truth!" Kinda reminds me of our Texas Rangers!

Well, THAT took a turn I didn't see coming.

[pegasus]

This is the best that I have read yet , the FBI says 2 to the body and 1 to the head , in other words rapid shots with a pistol --- M1 Garand 1 shot

I am walking , talking , living prof from 1 pellet from a low velocity 00 buck shot in the back put my face on the ground quick --- if that would have been a gun fight the shooter would have had time for a 2nd shot

There is no " BEST " bullet --- just for GEL

You were shot with a "low velocity" OO buck shot? How did it become low velocity? Was there a significant distance involved between yourself and the shooter, or was it one of those lower velocity copper plated rounds?

[BangBang]

Yeah, but how many jugs will it do that to?

Like Grandma said, "never put all of your eggs in one basket." And remember, no one talks much about hydro-static shock these days since hydro and static create an oxy-moron.

So we need 12" of penetration" I'm good with that! I don't know my own dimensions, but I'm pretty sure a drill would go through me, front to back before 12". But wait!!! Because the FBI chose the wrong ammo that got several agents killed, no one, and I mean no one connected to that tragedy has ever taken responsibility for their selection of a soft aluminum alloy jacket known for its rapid expansion at around 1200 FPS at the muzzle? You gots to have bofs childruns. While yet today, because of IWBA BS, no one even emphasizes the importance of both combined into that rare cosmic anomaly known as momentum! And yes, that's in your reloading manual should you decide to read it, Mr. Phelps. The balance of power lies in the combination of both and how we decide to manipulate them to best effect. I've mentioned a personal minimum for my defense loads at .650 Lb-seconds. So skipping an operation or 2 I'll tell you. Bullet weight / 225218 X velocity = momentum in Lb-seconds. I think about morons like those who would ask scientists to come forward and be recognized for the Strasbourg Goat tests with no fear of PETA burning their labs down. Then the goar scientists make the same request of their detractors, the IWBA, and unfortunately they had a prior commitment. Same people who were so easily compelled so slander just a couple of working cops trying to collect data for the benefit of their fellow Americans/Shooters.

For posterity, I've mentioned elsewhere here that the Secret Service and the Illinois State Police weren't having any problem putting villains down with well constructed, basic cup and core 9 x 19mm 115 gr. JHPs that were rated +P+ that I can handload without exceeding standard pressure (35,000 PSI) to get 1350 FPS.

BUT, they're not the FBR as they were called in the most excellent black comedy titled, The President's Analyst with Jame Coburn.

You see, while we give them billions which they spend NOT investigating Ho-Larry, Benghazi, or if he/she is the Manchurian Candidate. If you consider the Clinton/Obamintion administrations either directly leaking our nuclear secrets to the PRC that advanced their nuclear warhead technology by 25 years, Or your pre-school level understanding, or worse, of US State Security while your thumb is in a precarious location, and allow the PRC to build a man made island (Uh-Hum) military base in contested waters by the Fillipino's, Vietnamese, Chinese and the surrounding Asian republics, well of course we should let let those less than 2nd grade intellects infect this country with more stupids that will never have enough savvy than to vote for their demo-commie welcoming committee. But the President of the United States who didn't sell rights to US Uranium (yellow-cake) that he/she didn't own, nor had a OKC, Ruby Ridge or Waco under his belt, or the Fast and Furious Muslim Brotherhood . . . it seems that the FBR might itself be in collusion with the demo-commie party, going back to snuffing out Vince Foster in a "National Park" . . , of course they know best and why we should follow their Bovine Scatology, rather than a heroic group of Americans that were prepared to defend Texans whenever they could, considering they were at first on horseback patrolling what? An area the size of Texas, and doing it with distinction where today a our largest security agency spies on us, of course you should heed their's or the IWBA's ballistic mantra!

In the meantime, I'll be going to the dance with the girl who brung me! Or as Colonel Cooper suggested, "To ride, shoot straight and speak the truth!" Kinda reminds me of our Texas Rangers!

Mr 57K, why don't you tell us how you really feel....

Don

[NativeTexan]

Mmmmm, if I'm ever in milk jug country, I'll be sure and tote a rifle.

[ETF]

Thank you, I found that VERY interesting.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Me too!

I'm going to send that video to my good friend, our local County Sheriff. As long as I've known him, and that's many years, he's toted a .45. Okay, he shoots it pretty good but he gives me a hard time about my "girly" 9mm and .380. I've been hearing that "real" men carry and shoot a .45 1911 for sooooo long. I don't think that the video will get him to stop razzing me but it'll give me something to fight back with.

[rollin thunder]

There's a couple of fellas who wrote a book or at the very least, a report. They went around to several morgues and examined shot shot victims. I forget their names, but the book/report was named for them. Some people poo pooed the report and some ate it up.
One thing I remember taking away from it was, the .380 FMJ cartridge kills a whole bunch of people.

[Desperado]

There's a couple of fellas who wrote a book or at the very least, a report. They went around to several morgues and examined shot shot victims. I forget their names, but the book/report was named for them. Some people poo pooed the report and some ate it up.
One thing I remember taking away from it was, the .380 FMJ cartridge kills a whole bunch of people.

The guy you may be thinking of is Greg Ellifritz.
His article is An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power. Use a little googlefu, it is easy to find.

[GhostHorse]

But killing isn't the aim, unless you're an assassin. Lots of people have been killed by people using a .22LR, but how much evil did those dying people do before getting cold?

Having said that, I have to confess that this information influenced my thinking quite a bit.

https://mouseguns.com/deadmeat.htm Relevant quote: "All I've said all along through the past 15 pages or so is that I've seen the 9mm and .380 often fragment or stop short of reaching the vitals but I don't think I've ever seen a .45 do so."

Note the words "often" and "don't think I've ever."

If you trust energy, use 20 or 12 gauge birdshot. I trust punching as big a hole as possible at least to the vitals, so I trust bullets of more than 150 grains and diameters starting with 4 whenever possible.