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Which Bearslayer did I get and which one would you choose for yourselfl

  • Glock 20 like Ted Nugent

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • SA XDm in 10mm

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • S&W Mountain Gun in .41 Mag if they'd bring it back

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • 4" Ruger Redhawk in .41 Mag

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • 4" Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • 1911 in 10mm no need to be brand specific

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • 4.2" Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • 4" S&W 629 in .44 Magnum

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • 4" Dan Wesson revolver in .460 Rowland if they'd bring it back

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Grand Power M40 in 10mml

    Votes: 1 3.2%

So which Bear Defense Cartidge and Handgun will it be?

8K views 119 replies 31 participants last post by  57K 
#1 · (Edited)
We got quite a lot of mileage out of our previous discussion, so I thought I'd do a follow up. I also ask that you vote in the poll to guess what I picked, then state what you'll pick. If your pick is not in the poll, tell us about it.

After you vote in the poll, please post your choices! ;)
 
#2 ·
If you're talking bear gun, you mean to be probably hiking. I'd personally take the G20 for capacity and the fact that if I were hiking and fell down (a possibility) then I wouldn't have to cry because my Dan Wesson got all scratched up...
 
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#3 ·
I went with the Ruger 44mag, although the .41 would probably be just as effective. I already own and reload for a 44 so I'm a bit biased in that direction.
 
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#4 ·
I went with the 4" Ruger Redhawk in 44 magnum. It was the only one on the list that I would use in that situation.

BUT, price being no object, I would try to find a 6" Dan Wesson 44 magnum of early 1990's vintage (44VH). I certainly miss the one I had.
 
#5 ·
Yeah, but just imagine - you miss a couple of shots (nerves - it IS a bear, after all), wing it a couple of times, then have to run like he!! (!!), losing your grip on that Dan Wesson. You make it out and escape the bear but your gun is now in the possession of a bear...that would probably make me wish I'd just gotten eaten :eek:

:D:D:D
 
#12 ·
GH, I'm sure you remember the late great Jim Cirillo. I can't remember all the details, or the business relationship, but the former owner of Dan Wesson and he developed a great friendship before Dan Wesson was sold to CZ. Mr. Cirillo may be part of the reason for the DW 460 because I know that he got one of the first models from production.

In this day and age of the internet and the bear defense question being so commonly discussed, I thing the DW 460 would do very well today. It came with moon clips and any .45 auto round could be fired in it. The ACP, +P, Super, Win Mag and the .460 Rowland of course. Jim Cirillo, being the very savvy guy he was, and knowing the .460 was first an auto pistol cartridge, he talked about the better performance of the .460 Rowland from a 4" revolver, and he was right. Because powders were faster burning than those used for magnum revolver loads, the .460 gave better performance from a 4" revolver than the .44 Magnum.

IMO, a cartridge ahead of its time! ;)
 
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#7 ·
4" Ruger® Redhawk® in 41 Remington® Magnum for me.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
None of the above.

Glucks don't fit my hand no matter what some over the hill guitar player likes.

Never been fond of .41 Mag or 10mm.

Ain't fond of GP-100's, too chunky for my tastes.

Like the Model 29 but I want more barrel. It's open carry in the woods and I like the balance of a 5 inch (preferably with a full underlug) better.

Love Dan Wessons (own 2 .357's) but don't see the sense in getting one in some boutique round for serious work like being the last ditch woods gun. A 5" heavy barrel DW in .44mag or .45Colt would be just the ticket.

IF I had to go buy a pistol for the bear woods (where I live, I'm too far south for bears and too far north for gators so I don't have a reason to have one), I'd probably get a 5.5" Blackhawk in .44Mag or .45Colt. Been running single actions under stress shooting CAS since '94 and if I needed more than the 6 I'd have in it, I'm completely screwed anyhow.

As it stands, the Smith Model 69 (L frame 5 shot .44 Mag) is looking intriguing as a woods gun alternative. It would be a handful with stout 240's or heavier but with 200's and Specials, should be quite tolerable.

That being said, I ain't sold on the idea that ANY handgun is legit bear medicine. Yeah it'll work, but it's just more likely to be handy unlike a mid bore or heavier high power rifle or a good repeating shotgun loaded with slugs.

A big bore PCC would work. If a 5 inch .44 Mag or hot rodded .45Colt is acceptable, then what about the same load out of a 16 or 20" barrel and more of them? My .45 Colt '94 Trapper cycles 300gr Corbons just fine and will hold 9 of them. According to my chrono, they are doing about 1450 at the muzzle, so that rifle is toting the equivalent of 9 rounds of the .45-55-300 cavalry load from the 1880's. (Remember the part about shooting CAS since the mid '90's? Running a lever gun at speed is part of it, too) That might be adequate bear medicine if the need arises.

The big bore uppers on the AR platform would do, too. Ain't a whole lot in the woods that you can't take with a .458Socom or .50Beuwulf carbine loaded with solids and a couple spare mags.
 
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#9 · (Edited)


But seriously, I'm going to take the road less traveled here by telling you that there is no wrong answer on your poll, and that any of the above would be suitable for Bear Defense. Contrary to popular belief, Bears aren't mythical creatures who are all but impervious to mortal weapons, and have been killed by even the crudest, most primitive of firearms long before people started arguing on the internet over the subject, tossing around fancy scientific terms like "Ballistics Coefficient" and "Sectional Density" in order to support their caliber of choice. (In fact, most muskets were terrible in both respects, but thankfully Bears still dropped dead when shot without being any the wiser.)

That said, some choices are arguably more effective than others on your list depending on the Bear. (Basically, the bigger the Bear, the bigger the caliber.)
Ultimately, ammo selection is more vital than the caliber. You want a heavyweight, hardcast semi-wadcutter bullet which will punch right through a Bear's thick hide and smash through bone without deforming, thus ensuring deep penetration. Don't mess around with JHPs, penetration is far more important than expansion. If you want a bigger hole, then use a larger caliber bullet.

Personally, if it were me, then I would choose a 12 Gauge Shotgun. There are other dangerous animals in the woods than Bears, many of which are more easily/effectively dealt with using Shot rather than Slugs, so I like the versatility of a Shotgun when it comes to the woods. I'd have a variety of loads on my person ranging from Shot to Slugs to Flares, but if Bear was my biggest concern then it would be loaded to capacity with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs.
I know that 12 Gauge Shotguns are larger and typically heavier than most Magnum Revolvers, but the Mossberg 590 Shockwave (which I happen to own) is much shorter in length and lighter in weight that your average Shotgun, yet still much more manageable than say a .500 S&W Magnum, so such would be my choice.
 
#10 ·
My choice is not on the poll list.... now that I have been shooting my new Ruger Alaskan 2.5 inch revolver in .454 Casull (150 rounds so far) I am confident I can put the bullets where they need to go. I am not shooting two inch groups but I can put multiple hits (4 out of 6 shots) into a paper plate consistently at 25 yards. If I continue to practice I'm sure I will get better. However, since big bears are kind of rare here in Florida I do not see a need for a Bearslayer but if that situation should suddenly change my Alaskan shooting .454 Casull will be my Bearslayer.

Don
 
#11 ·
If I hadn't added 2 discontinued revolvers, the Alaskan would have been in the poll, so just consider that an oversight on my part.;)
 
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#13 ·
Apparently no love for my fave, the +P .45 Colt in the Ruger Blackhawk, as powerful as ANY .44 magnum and lighter on the hip in rough country than most. Besides, I love my single actions. :D
 
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#16 · (Edited)
NT, only because it isn't DA. If I had had more choices, a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt and the Alaskan would have been in the poll. Unfortunately, I added two revolvers that I wish I had bought when they were available. But at least there is the potential of S&W bringing back the Mountain Gun, but it didn't allow the 30,000 PSI loads in .45 Colt. It was kinda light for .44 Mag, but portable enough for the job whereas the .41 Mag version is like Goldilocks. I even handled one at the gunshop long enough that I almost talked myself into leaving with it, but at the time I felt it was a bit too light and probably because one of my Redhawks in .41 Mag had the 5 1/2" barrel. For me, the 4" .41 Mag (dealer exclusive) makes lots of sense considering that a good many folks have decided that the 10mm is enough.

Personally, it used to wear me out hearing some gun-counter commando telling a customer that the 10mm was equal to the .41 Magnum. Handloaded: not even close. At the top of its performance capability, the 10mm does not provide energy above what you can handload in .357 Magnum, even if you're handloading 10mm.;)
 
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#19 ·
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#22 ·
ahh-umm-well u see-ahh--is that a Koala Bear or a Polar Bear that we are hunting???
 
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#25 ·
Despite my above comment, I chose the SA XDm in 10mm. Only because I’ve seen them and handled them (4.5” and 5.25”) and they have a 15+1 capacity. Didn’t buy one as I’m not so sure I want a SA (even an auto) when facing a bear. I noticed that “other” not listed as an option but, if it was, I woulda gone with a Sig DA/SA P220 Elite in 10mm. Only 8+1 configuration but no thumb safety (or mini grip safety) to have to worry about misbehaving at an inopportune time.
 
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#26 ·
Because of its longer forward slide rails that essentially give you a steel bathtub under the barrel's chamber area, I'd go with the XDm also. Ran across some somewhat odd older data last night from one of Western's former ballisticians. Seems he had a fascination with Enforcer with loads in .40 S&W and the .45 ACP in two consecutive load guides, and using a Magnum primer.Excellent performance for the .45 without getting into +P pressure

I probably should have loaded some of those .45s, and the XDm 45 was the first pistol I bought site unseen, but after a local dealer got one and notified me. Added a PRP Match Trigger kit also.

I'll just give the data for the in-between 200 gr. XTP .45 ACP/Enforcer load with pressure reported as 19,043 PSI with a FED 150 primer with Enforcer where 16.2 grs. is shown as MAX. Velocity is rated 1165 FPS, with a very good Standard Deviation of 10 FPS. But like I said, I've never gotten around to making/confirming the Enforcer data. The Test barrel was 5".

Might be worth looking into to see how much Enforcer you can actually get into a .45 ACP case and still have enough room to seat the bullet. In this case, OACL with the 200 gr. XTP is 1.215". Then there are loads at 185 and 230 grs. The 230 and the 200 ballistics are at least as good as most factory loaded 10mm. In case you have that old faithful .45 ACP pistol already. ;)
 
#27 ·
Some good guns there. I'm going to suggest that the Charter Arms Mag Pug in .41 is going to be a little more carry-able then a lot of them, though. It's even pretty concealable if you need that to be an option for whatever reason.

OTOH, as you'd probably think, it has more felt recoil than many of them, too. Mine has been reliable for the few rounds I've put through it, decently accurate for what it is and more or less manageable during shooting, but it's definitely not something I ever shoot "for fun." But lugging a 3 pound Super Blackhawk on a 10 mile mountain hike isn't fun either. ;)
 
#35 ·
I hadn't heard of the Pug in .41 mag. Hmmmmmm, always thought about adding a .41 if I were to add anything. Much more powerful than a wimpy 10mm and this gun could actually be carried concealed. :D Wouldn't lose brass like a brass waster, either. :D I ain't worried about bears, just thinkin' this would be a neat little revolver. :D

Truth be told on the bear thing, a 500 round magazine ain't gonna do you no good. If you don't hit a charging bear with the first shot, you're not going to have time to get off the other 499 even spraying and praying. You might as well roll up into a nice bite sized ball. Bears are FAST, way faster than your average trigger finger. I'm much more comfortable with a powerful single action revolver, one accurate, powerful shot. Plus, a single action revolver is a lot tougher than any brass waster when carried in rough country. :D
 
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#28 ·
BTW, guys. I didn't mean to complicate the poll. But making it multiple choice might have been a bit much since no one has taken a stab at my personal selection. Then, after having to get instructions on how to to add a poll in the first place, the multiple choice thing didn't work right for me, either!

I did vote for the big mistake I made in not buying a S&W .41 Mountain Gun. Because while the trend, which I tried to accurately represent, seems to be towards the 10mm, I didn't want to stray to far away from the cartridge.

About the only question I'd have is how well I could shoot one, because in reality, the 10mm isn't a .41 mag, and if you look way back you'll see that factory 240 gr. .44 Mag loads chrono'd more like 1250 FPS while the 210 gr. .41 mag loads were closer to 1400 FPS .

Now it appears that we got a ball game while the team that's ahead is not the one I would have expected. ;)
 
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#30 ·
I voted for the 1911 in 10mm just because I want one. Note lots of bears here and hunt them regularly, several one shot clean kills with my firearm of choice a old Savage '06 with 220 gn hand loads, however one season I took a nice young male at 20 yards with a 5.5 in Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt with hand loaded 240 gn JHP. My BIL was with me in the blind armed with a '06 is why I took the opportunity to give the handgun a try and it was a one shot to the head for the take down. Note though, I used a rest and had lots of time and waited for the perfect shot.

Bear Woodland Nature reserve Natural environment Tree
 
#37 ·
Well, .223 from an M16 carries as much energy as a .44 magnum from a 6" revolver. Can't say the FMJ ammo didn't penetrate, either. :D I'm guessing it was a spray and pray exhibition. :D
 
#38 ·
I hope you guys realize that there are just some things I can't mention if they are related to, or in advance of an article. I try to mention what I can along the way.

And since I mentioned my error of how to pick in my own poll, I'll tell you now that the one selection I did make, is not the actual handgun I bought. No matter, as Robert Plant sang in Kashmir, "All we be revealed."

Spent 3 hours at the range earlier and not much of it for pure fun. Lots of good data collected and we can get into that later. I still have an article to complete, but I'm pretty sure I have enough mat'l to complete it over the weekend. I will say, if you can believe that I could accomplish such a thing. I'm thinking about the next article/project with me shooting a magnum revolver in DA mode while I get it on video. My digital camera is kind of a pain in the A** in terms of its capabilities and all of the freakin' instructions, but I believe that I read somewhere that it has short duration video capability.

So, as far as I what I've chosen, when we get to the point of lack of interest, I'll tell y'all what I chose. If I do a magnum revolver shooting video of me shooting that revolver (OOO000oops). I'll post the handload details here. ;)
 
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#40 · (Edited)
In NFL Combine terms, how fast you can run the 40 is very significant because a griz can run the 40 faster than some may be aware of.

I might be optimistic, but I've been amazed in how well the Safariland Comp-2 speedloaders work, particularly when compared to the HKS. A speed load with a griz running the 40, charging with intentions of separating body parts from you is not a good time to find out how fast you can do a speedload or how many rounds you can place accurately from a handgun.

With a revolver that you can shoot really well in DA, I'd be more concerned about the stopping power of the load vs mag capacity with a less powerful cartridhge. Emphasis on the "Shoot Really Well." ;)
 
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#53 ·
In NFL Combine terms, how fast you can run the 40 is very significant because a griz can run the 40 faster than some may be aware of.

I might be optimistic, but I've been amazed in how well the Safariland Comp-2 speedloaders work, particularly when compared to the HKS. A speed load with a griz running the 40, charging with intentions of separating body parts from you is not a good time to find out how fast you can do a speedload or how many rounds you can place accurately from a handg

With a revolver that you can shoot really well in DA, I'd be more concerned about the stopping power of the load vs mag capacity with a less powerful cartridhge. Emphasis on the "Shoot Really Well." ;)

Whenever I am in bear country I don't have to out run any bears, I always make sure I have someone with me who is much slower than me.:D
 
#41 ·
Ok. I played with a Glock 40 Longslide MOS in 10mm this afternoon. Nice! Quite front heavy but imagine it levels out with a full mag. 15+1 capacity. Comes with 4 mags, interchangeable back straps and several different thickness MOS plates. Priced < $690.
 
#42 · (Edited)
My first and only selection for this most important self-defense handgun challenge for the outdoorsman, 4 inch blued S&W 25 double action revolver in 45 Long Colt. When the critter absolutely, positively must start assuming ambient temperature, immediately. Accept no substitutes. I do note this is NOT one of the selections, but I trust my judgement on this one. Other aspects that recommend this choice, ammo availability, particularly when compared against 41 Mag and 10mm. In my admittedly non-universal experience, 45 LC is readily available in any bear country shop that offers ammunition. Upper range of Power Factor is equal and some say can exceed 44 Magnum. You can cite examples of 25ACP taking out grizzlies all you want, I am not going into the woods with THAT sized gun as a self defense weapon. No concerns with exceeding revolver frame strength with this Smith & Wesson Model 25 double action revolver. Being double action, it matches my CCW manual of arms, particularly firing, ejecting, and reloading. A single action may be stronger, but I veer towards the familiar in high risk equipment choices, and I have weekly experience with S&W type (Taurus matches this aspect very nicely) double action revolvers. Finally, I can hit accurately, repeatedly with this one.
 
#52 ·
My first and only selection for this most important self-defense handgun challenge for the outdoorsman, 4 inch blued S&W 25 double action revolver in 45 Long Colt. When the critter absolutely, positively must start assuming ambient temperature, immediately. Accept no substitutes. I do note this is NOT one of the selections, but I trust my judgement on this one. Other aspects that recommend this choice, ammo availability, particularly when compared against 41 Mag and 10mm. In my admittedly non-universal experience, 45 LC is readily available in any bear country shop that offers ammunition. Upper range of Power Factor is equal and some say can exceed 44 Magnum. You can cite examples of 25ACP taking out grizzlies all you want, I am not going into the woods with THAT sized gun as a self defense weapon. No concerns with exceeding revolver frame strength with this Smith & Wesson Model 25 double action revolver. Being double action, it matches my CCW manual of arms, particularly firing, ejecting, and reloading. A single action may be stronger, but I veer towards the familiar in high risk equipment choices, and I have weekly experience with S&W type (Taurus matches this aspect very nicely) double action revolvers. Finally, I can hit accurately, repeatedly with this one.

Adaptation Wildlife Terrestrial animal Organism Common chimpanzee
 
#43 ·
Usain Bolt runs 28mph, a bear can run 30. I would go with six rounds I can count on over 15 where the chance of malfunction under severe stress is greater IMHO.
 
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#44 ·
Black bears are rarely aggressive, the most I have had to do was raise my arms and voice. Once I left the cooler out front of the cabin overnight and it was emptied in the morning. It ate and drank a everything including canned beers. Bit every can open. Was still milling around out front, but left when we woke up. I'm sure he had a hangover later in the day.
 
#48 ·
Serious question again. Is there really much difference in a 4” Ruger Super Redhawk and a 4” S&W 629 when they fire the same cartridge? Yep, I’m a Ruger fan but that doesn’t mean I’m anti S&W . . . . . threw that out to satiate the anti-Ruger or anti-S&W.
 
#62 ·
Big difference when shooting really heavy 45 Colt loads with big heavy lead bullets. That extra weight of the SRH really tames those loads and I like knowing I'm not doing my gun harm. Shooting hot & heavy 45 Colt loads in my Alaskan 454 is a breeze, even shooting 360 gn LSWC Hard Cast with max loads of 2400 is still not much more recoil than a 44 mag in a mod 29.
 
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