So which Bear Defense Cartidge and Handgun will it be? - Page 4

View Poll Results: Which Bearslayer did I get and which one would you choose for yourselfl

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31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Glock 20 like Ted Nugent

    6 19.35%
  • SA XDm in 10mm

    2 6.45%
  • S&W Mountain Gun in .41 Mag if they'd bring it back

    1 3.23%
  • 4" Ruger Redhawk in .41 Mag

    2 6.45%
  • 4" Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag

    9 29.03%
  • 1911 in 10mm no need to be brand specific

    4 12.90%
  • 4.2" Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum

    2 6.45%
  • 4" S&W 629 in .44 Magnum

    5 16.13%
  • 4" Dan Wesson revolver in .460 Rowland if they'd bring it back

    1 3.23%
  • Grand Power M40 in 10mml

    1 3.23%
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Thread: So which Bear Defense Cartidge and Handgun will it be?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdog1 View Post
    While running your chrony tests, you should check out the Underwood 180 gr. out of a 6" barrel. You're right. A 10mm isn't a .41 mag. My 10mm holds 15 rounds...

    yea I agree from a power standpoint-- I think in a life or death situation of facing a bear (of any size) on the ground I would opt for the 10 MM in say 15 +1 rounds than a 41 mag in 6 Plus 0 rounds myself.
    I like my Tanfoglio in 10 MM better than my Rock in 10 MM for such things, mostly due to more capacity, faster return to target and the same or better (slightly) accuracy.
    Aberdog1 likes this.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdog1 View Post
    While running your chrony tests, you should check out the Underwood 180 gr. out of a 6" barrel. You're right. A 10mm isn't a .41 mag. My 10mm holds 15 rounds...
    So I suspect I would be impressed? Thing is, you can buy 10mm loads like Double-Tap, Underwoods or Buffalo Bore that are close enough to Max Pressure that you probably shouldn't expect to increase velocity through handloading. With the .41 Mag, however, it's no stretch to get 1500 FPS with a 210 gr. bullet from a 6" barrel. Plug in some soft-points or Hornady XTPs . . .

    Regardless of the loads power, you'll still have to shoot slowly, as fast as you can. If one can not control their pistol/caliber in rapid fire, you won't be able to miss fast enough.
    jimb1972 and olfarhors like this.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57K View Post
    BTW, guys. I didn't mean to complicate the poll. But making it multiple choice might have been a bit much since no one has taken a stab at my personal selection. Then, after having to get instructions on how to to add a poll in the first place, the multiple choice thing didn't work right for me, either!

    I did vote for the big mistake I made in not buying a S&W .41 Mountain Gun. Because while the trend, which I tried to accurately represent, seems to be towards the 10mm, I didn't want to stray to far away from the cartridge.

    About the only question I'd have is how well I could shoot one, because in reality, the 10mm isn't a .41 mag, and if you look way back you'll see that factory 240 gr. .44 Mag loads chrono'd more like 1250 FPS while the 210 gr. .41 mag loads were closer to 1400 FPS .

    Now it appears that we got a ball game while the team that's ahead is not the one I would have expected.
    Shoot! I didn’t even notice it was multiple choice! There’s maybe one or two others I might have picked to go along with the XDm. The Glock, for example, b/c I can move to a Storm Lake or other aftermarket replacement barrel. And the Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag; I have access to one of those now. We do have a Kimber Custom Carry II in 10mm on display at one of the LGSs here and it is priced to sell - $700. I’ve just never been a Kimber nut and have never owned or shot one - I guess that makes me an internet expert qualified to bash a brand .
    57K likes this.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57K View Post
    So I suspect I would be impressed? Thing is, you can buy 10mm loads like Double-Tap, Underwoods or Buffalo Bore that are close enough to Max Pressure that you probably shouldn't expect to increase velocity through handloading. With the .41 Mag, however, it's no stretch to get 1500 FPS with a 210 gr. bullet from a 6" barrel. Plug in some soft-points or Hornady XTPs . . .

    Regardless of the loads power, you'll still have to shoot slowly, as fast as you can. If one can not control their pistol/caliber in rapid fire, you won't be able to miss fast enough.
    and to me that's the important thing--and why I would opt for a semi auto in 10MM personally.
    Now never hunted nor shot a bear, especially one of any size but---
    I have hunted true Boar from the ground on a few occasions and in heavy woods-- with dawgs as well.
    these things can explode if and when they decide to charge so you aren't exactly shooting at a stationary target broadside, the Bear could/Would? be the same I expect.
    normally one round from a 41 mag or 44 mag usually does not drop them in their tracks.
    the last boar I took received three 41 mag hand loads to stop him finally.
    first one as a broadside good shot at about 20 yards or so the next 2 were him charging and both hit,
    I did do a fourth shot as a grace shot to put him out of his misery behind the ear but he was basically standing dead at that point.
    now he was 350 pounder.
    the first shot was slow and placed, the second and third shots as he charged was red dot ( front sight), boar and shoot as fast as I could.
    57K likes this.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossi View Post
    Some good guns there. I'm going to suggest that the Charter Arms Mag Pug in .41 is going to be a little more carry-able then a lot of them, though. It's even pretty concealable if you need that to be an option for whatever reason.

    OTOH, as you'd probably think, it has more felt recoil than many of them, too. Mine has been reliable for the few rounds I've put through it, decently accurate for what it is and more or less manageable during shooting, but it's definitely not something I ever shoot "for fun." But lugging a 3 pound Super Blackhawk on a 10 mile mountain hike isn't fun either.

    I hadn't heard of the Pug in .41 mag. Hmmmmmm, always thought about adding a .41 if I were to add anything. Much more powerful than a wimpy 10mm and this gun could actually be carried concealed. Wouldn't lose brass like a brass waster, either. I ain't worried about bears, just thinkin' this would be a neat little revolver.

    Truth be told on the bear thing, a 500 round magazine ain't gonna do you no good. If you don't hit a charging bear with the first shot, you're not going to have time to get off the other 499 even spraying and praying. You might as well roll up into a nice bite sized ball. Bears are FAST, way faster than your average trigger finger. I'm much more comfortable with a powerful single action revolver, one accurate, powerful shot. Plus, a single action revolver is a lot tougher than any brass waster when carried in rough country.
    jtg452 and 57K like this.
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  7. #36
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    Speaking of high capacity being supposedly useless against Bears, I recall a rather amusing (or terrifying if you choice to believe it) story I read in a Bear Defense thread.

    According to the poster, he heard a first-hand account from an old friend of his who lived in Alaska and was employed as a ranger about a case in which a bunch of soldiers who had been stationed there for an undisclosed reason that went missing. The ranger had apparently been tasked with trekking out to the last known whereabouts of the platoon whom radio contact with had been lost, expecting nothing worse than to find that their radio equipment was damaged or that the signal had been blocked by adverse weather conditions. However, the ranger was reportedly shocked to find that the the soldiers had setup camp, but it was a derelict, and there were signs of a battle having taken place due to the ground being littered with 5.56 brass. After scouting the area thoroughly, the ranger reportedly discovered the bodies of the soldiers buried in the snow, displaying tell-tale injuries consistent with those inflicted by a Bear. Of course, the whole point of this story was an argument against using an AR-15 for Bear Defense.

    Personally, I wrote the story off as a Tall Tale at best given the sheer number of unanswered questions the story raised along with the fact that such was the poster's one and only contribution to the thread.
    That being said, if there was any truth to the story, then I would sooner contribute the deaths of the soldiers to them missing their target than the outrageous insinuation that the Bear withstood sustained fire from M16s, killed all of the soldiers, buried their bodies, then wandered off to parts unknown without succumbing to its injuries or leaving a blood trail.

    But yeah, it was most likely just an extremely poor bit of unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence in the argument against using a high capacity firearm chambered in small caliber cartridges.

    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    heck read the old-old COLT advertising for the 1911 chambered in Super 38 (that was before the plus p loading) and they indicated that it was THE weapon caliber of choice if hunting elephant, rhino, bear, and other creatures.
    so thars ur Answer!
    BY the way I hold beers if needed while you do this--at a distance of course!
    If you ever happen upon that article ever again, then I would really appreciate it if you would either snap a picture of it or send me a link if it has already been posted online somewhere, as I would absolutely love to see it and have a copy of it to go with my .25 Bear Defense ad.
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  8. #37
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    Well, .223 from an M16 carries as much energy as a .44 magnum from a 6" revolver. Can't say the FMJ ammo didn't penetrate, either. I'm guessing it was a spray and pray exhibition.
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  9. #38
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    I hope you guys realize that there are just some things I can't mention if they are related to, or in advance of an article. I try to mention what I can along the way.

    And since I mentioned my error of how to pick in my own poll, I'll tell you now that the one selection I did make, is not the actual handgun I bought. No matter, as Robert Plant sang in Kashmir, "All we be revealed."

    Spent 3 hours at the range earlier and not much of it for pure fun. Lots of good data collected and we can get into that later. I still have an article to complete, but I'm pretty sure I have enough mat'l to complete it over the weekend. I will say, if you can believe that I could accomplish such a thing. I'm thinking about the next article/project with me shooting a magnum revolver in DA mode while I get it on video. My digital camera is kind of a pain in the A** in terms of its capabilities and all of the freakin' instructions, but I believe that I read somewhere that it has short duration video capability.

    So, as far as I what I've chosen, when we get to the point of lack of interest, I'll tell y'all what I chose. If I do a magnum revolver shooting video of me shooting that revolver (OOO000oops). I'll post the handload details here.
    Tuco_Ramírez likes this.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco_Ramírez View Post

    If you ever happen upon that article ever again, then I would really appreciate it if you would either snap a picture of it or send me a link if it has already been posted online somewhere, as I would absolutely love to see it and have a copy of it to go with my .25 Bear Defense ad.
    found it on the internet--a web sight and guy that is a total 38 auto/super fanatic.
    don't have a link he has a well documented history of the cartridge and lots and lots of advertising that was used over to years to promote the cartridge. very interesting for those involved in the old round.
    IF I run across it again I will save the link and post it.
    of course this was before all the modern super calibers and most here in the USA used the 32, 38 S & W or 38 Spl back then, the 9 MM was a step child as it came from them savages that started WW1.
    Tuco_Ramírez likes this.
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  11. #40
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    In NFL Combine terms, how fast you can run the 40 is very significant because a griz can run the 40 faster than some may be aware of.

    I might be optimistic, but I've been amazed in how well the Safariland Comp-2 speedloaders work, particularly when compared to the HKS. A speed load with a griz running the 40, charging with intentions of separating body parts from you is not a good time to find out how fast you can do a speedload or how many rounds you can place accurately from a handgun.

    With a revolver that you can shoot really well in DA, I'd be more concerned about the stopping power of the load vs mag capacity with a less powerful cartridhge. Emphasis on the "Shoot Really Well."
    Last edited by 57K; 04-12-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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