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  1. #151
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    I also hate Taurus firearms, My goal is to buy as many as I can and shoot them until they fall apart, I hate them so much.
    If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.
    -Patches O'Houlihan

  2. #152
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    There's an arse or budget for every seat.
    Stadiums have sweet (suite) seats and they have rim of the stadium seats... and those in between, your pick.
    We the People...

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
    I own 1 Keltec, a P3AT. It was a jam-o-matic. I think after the 2nd time back to Ketlec, in which they paid shipping, they replaced it with a brand new generation 2 P3AT. Other than the headache there was no cost to me. That's how customer service should be.

    The fact that you or others haven't "yet" had a problem with a Taurus - it's just a matter of time IMO. And like those others who have soured on the brand, you'll be back to say, "My eyes have been opened."

    Until then happy trails!

    Don't bet on that. All weapons, all machines have their problems. People bad mouth new generation Smiths, say they will only buy old ones. Well, I inherited a Model 10 K frame .38, great gun, but the forcing cone split on it when I was firing wadcutters! I found a 4" heavy barrel to replace the 4" pencil barrel that split.

    The problem with the K frames is the flat at the bottom of the forcing cone is weak. Smith and Wesson as much as acknowledged this with the release of the new K frames. They now brag about the round forcing cone. My Taurus 66s both have round forcing cones. One is a mid/late 80s gun, the other a mid 90s gun. The 4" gun outshoots that Smith and the Smith is an accurate gun. My older 66 fits my K frame holsters, the newer one is L framed, won't fit the K frame holsters and it's a might heavier and less handy than the older one. I had a 19 for a while and sold it. I'll keep my Taurus 66s, though.

    I have more Rugers than anything else. One's a cap and ball "Old Army". Most are Blackhawks, but I have two semi autos I really like. They're old P guns, a P85 and a KP90DC. I love those guns, rugged as heck and not that heavy, though they are bulky. I won a lot of shoots with 'em, especially the .45. I won a pin shoot with it against mostly 1911s. But, I'll pass on the striker fired stuff Ruger is pumping out, now. I'm a hammer gun guy. I've got about 300 rounds through my new Taurus TH9c, lovin' that thing. Shoot what YOU want. I refuse to limit my choices. I was looking at CZs, hammer guns with decockers. They're bulkier and heavier than the Taurus and a hundred dollars more money. I'm happy with what I've got.

    People brag about Rugers being built like bank vaults or such. Well, I managed to shoot a Security Six quite loose. I can understand why Ruger replaced it with the GP100. I bought the 90s Taurus 66 to replace it and have it still. The SP101 is more rugged than that old Security Six! The mag release spring in my P90 broke. Ruger sent me a new one. Hey, stuff happens. At least I can say Ruger had your back when something DOES happen.

    It was my M85SSUL .38 snubby, bought in 1996 for carry, and the subsequent purchase of the 4" 66 that sold me on Taurus. I have NOT been disappointed. I just don't like their policy for parts and service. Just about everyone has 'em beat on parts availability...cept maybe Star or Llama.
    Last edited by NativeTexan; 03-29-2019 at 06:30 PM.
    Taurus M85UL Rossi Sportsman .22
    Taurus M66 3" blue Rossi 3"M68
    Taurus M66 4" Nickel Rossi Carbine in .357 Mag
    Taurus 605 Poly Protector
    Taurus PT 145
    Taurus TH9c

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  5. #154
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    I bought my 3" 66 used at a gun show, actually the same gun show I bought my 4" at several years before which was also used. I had been specifically looking for a 3" K frame, but 3" Smith K frames USED brought big money at the time, probably still do. I picked the gun up, noticed lots of slop in the cylinder, went through the timing and it was not timing right. Figured worst case I could try Taurus' warranty. The guy was asking 200 for it, went down to 180. I bought it as a project.

    Well, I got this gun home and took the side plate off and cleaned everything out. I noticed someone had assembled the gun with the wrong side plate screw in the hole that impinges on the crane. THAT's where the crane slop was coming from. SO, I just put it back together right and it timed perfect, was tight, and I've been shooting and carrying it ever since! I know this gun has a lot of rounds through it. It had a pachmayer trip on it with the faux checkering all worn down on the back where the recoil forces it into the hand. It has some holster wear, but that grip looked sad. Yet, end shake is good, barrel/cylinder gap is good, not like brand new as it's a LITTLE loose from wear, but it's still in spec in every way.

    Now, I can just imagine the previous owner screwing up the side plate screws and bad mouthing Taurus for making "junk guns". Hey, I've owned junk guns. They all had one thing in common....ZAMAK... Taurus is decent quality whether you think it or not. I will agree with you on customer service and parts, though. I'm hoping the company will come around on that someday, not that I've ever had occasion to try it out.
    taurustoter and loudviking like this.
    Taurus M85UL Rossi Sportsman .22
    Taurus M66 3" blue Rossi 3"M68
    Taurus M66 4" Nickel Rossi Carbine in .357 Mag
    Taurus 605 Poly Protector
    Taurus PT 145
    Taurus TH9c

  6. #155
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    Well the good news on the 66 and several other guns they cloned from SW and others is that they are always going to be serviced and parts available. I, too, bought a nice 66 not long ago for this reason. It's been my experience Taurus is really good at making clones of guns off specs and tooling and with knowledgeable employees. But, you'd have to be purposefully ignoring the fact that NINE of their models were recalled and destroyed as being unsafe. NINE. How many in-house models have they ever made, and what percentage is NINE of that figure? Got to be alarmingly high.

    So, yeah, when the clone stuff on original tooling, they do a fine job.... But statistically if you have a Taurus without issues, you have gotten extremely lucky. About 1/3rd of mine have had big problems.

  7. #156
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    Yeah, Taurus sucks, that's why I own four of them...I just like things that suck.
    Are we there yet?
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  8. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
    Well the good news on the 66 and several other guns they cloned from SW and others is that they are always going to be serviced and parts available. I, too, bought a nice 66 not long ago for this reason. It's been my experience Taurus is really good at making clones of guns off specs and tooling and with knowledgeable employees. But, you'd have to be purposefully ignoring the fact that NINE of their models were recalled and destroyed as being unsafe. NINE. How many in-house models have they ever made, and what percentage is NINE of that figure? Got to be alarmingly high.

    So, yeah, when the clone stuff on original tooling, they do a fine job.... But statistically if you have a Taurus without issues, you have gotten extremely lucky. About 1/3rd of mine have had big problems.
    The K frames I've owned had/have a hammer nose (firing pin) mounted on the hammer and use a hammer block safety. My newer Tauri have a transfer bar (ala Ruger). The older one has a hammer block, but in both cases, they have a frame mounted firing pin. This is not exactly a Smith clone IMHO. The Rossis were a lot closer to that. When the hammer nose snapped on my Rossi 971, a gunsmith fitted a K frame hammer nose to it. I sold the gun after that when I got the 4" 66. I liked that Rossi, was light on the hip, a lot lighter than the 66 and yet held 6 rounds. I carried it while hiking. I might should have kept it, but I ain't in physical shape to hike anymore. Have to take a chemo drug for a bone marrow condition and between the side affects of that drug and my anemia, well, I ain't hiking much farther than the bathroom anymore.

    I traded that Rossi with cash for a Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk that I really wanted. I wouldn't trade back. That Blackhawk is awesome.
    Last edited by NativeTexan; 03-29-2019 at 07:32 PM.
    Taurus M85UL Rossi Sportsman .22
    Taurus M66 3" blue Rossi 3"M68
    Taurus M66 4" Nickel Rossi Carbine in .357 Mag
    Taurus 605 Poly Protector
    Taurus PT 145
    Taurus TH9c

  9. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
    Agreed, with a caveat. This was probably true 20 years ago, but not so much today when there are an abundance of awesome 2nd hand guns for barely more than the cost of a new Taurus, and we have broader forums for research, videos for demonstrations, gun knowledge seems broader, and online shopping classifieds have broader reach.

    Example.
    A new basic Taurus - which you need for the warranty - will generally set you back $250-$300 (absent some mail in rebate deal). Revolvers or full sized guns more.

    Five minutes on Armslist shows better quality used guns in the $250-$400 price range. I have bought a lot of guns. I haven't bought a Taurus since 2016... there's literally no need to. A buyer would do better to buy a used high quality gun for the same price, as I've just demonstrated, and most used guns often come with extra magazines, night sites, and so forth...

    So I reject the argument in the modern era of a surplus of amazing guns at rock bottom prices flooding the market.
    Not everyone shops on Armslist or even on line. The last time I was at a gun show I saw new black PT111 G2's with two magazines selling as low as 199. The only new handguns that were cheaper were the Hi Points and the Jimenez. Used handguns from other manufacturers were listed 350 on up, depending on condition. New handguns from Ruger and Smith were in the 400 range, Glocks in the mid 5's to 600 depending on the model. (In SW Ohio)

    I have an aquantence who was shopping at a gun show for a handgun, and I advised her when she asked about my Taurus that although I've had good luck with mine I've heard on line of some issues where people had to send them in for CS and a long wait time. She liked how it felt in her hand and the trigger pull, and just could not pay 4-500 for a handgun, and still have money to buy practice ammo, pay for her CCW class, licensing fees, etc. Price wise it was either the Taurus or the Jimenez. The Hi point felt like a club to her and she didn't like it. The last I checked she's only had 500 rounds through it so far but no defects. I personally know several other people with the PT111 G2 and one guy with a revolver also who have so far also been defect free.

    As far as someday needing CS even though I don't now, that's probably true if I keep shooting mine long enough. (I've only got 1600 rounds through it so far) It's not just round count either, but all kinds and types of 9X19 rounds, bullet weights from 50-147 grains. So far mine has been like that old Timex saying, "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" but maybe I just got lucky I guess. Hopefully the people who do need CS though will have improved wait times than some people in the past that have experienced long ones.
    olfarhors and DeltaBravoKS like this.

  10. #159
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    I just like the Underdog....................
    There are "four boxes" that can be employed to resist the downfall of America, the ballot box, the soap box, the jury box and, lastly, the ammo box.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativeTexan View Post
    People hate on Kel Tec, too. I'm very fond of my P11. It's eaten near 10K I'm sure, stopped counting (or estimating) around 7K. I don't shoot it near as much as I used to, but it still shoots straight and functions flawlessly.

    I'm the only one that matters, IMHO. If I'm happy with the gun, I really don't give a flip about you or your opinions. Just being honest.

    One thing, Kel Tec's CS is hand over fist better than Taurus. You don't have to argue about a part. If you need it, it'll be in the mail box that week.
    and you know for me that's the bottom line, its not how much a weapon cost, although reliability is number 1 for me.
    its about the customer service, the lack of expertise when talking with CS (talk to 5 different CS and get at least 4 different answers) the lack of simple things like magazines, much less parts and the follow up when a customer does have a problem that is the weapon/manufactures fault.
    course a 40-50% return rate don't help in my case, don't care what brand it is, I ain't gonna get snake bit anymore.
    taurustoter and Desperado like this.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
    Currently Professionally Retired Old Person.

 

 
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