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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by texastaurusguy View Post
    I understand what you're saying, I really do, but like you said before, we have to re-open businesses and get people back to work. Mortgages need to be paid, bills paid, food put on tables, we can't just sit around waiting on stimulus checks and unemployment checks to show up.

    Pelosi's Stimulus II (I think she called it the 'hero bill') predicates everything on people staying at home ad infinitum. That's just not possible. When a bill like hers shows up at the doorstep of the Senate, what are they supposed to do but declare it DOA? This thing is truly politicized though, lines have been drawn, and the governors who have used heavy handed tactics have made it virtually impossible for anybody to trust those politicians.
    I question whether you're actually understanding what I'm saying. Please read my first post #5 if you haven't. I'm not in favor of us all being locked away for more weeks upon weeks. I am however greatly in favor of opening back up gradually and safely. Unfortunately, far too many people aren't on board with gradually or safely. If left to their own devices and whims on how they care to react to this virus, far too many people will choose unwisely for us to collectively have any real success I'm afraid. We lack a unified collective response where we are all in the same boat rowing in the same direction, and that's ultimately going to kill tens of thousands more that probably wouldn't need to die if we had firm rules in place that we were all willing to follow. But some people just aren't willing to wear masks, social distance, wash their hands properly, head nod instead of handshake, until we can much better get this under control. Some folks have been fooled into thinking we do have in under control. We don't. Others have been fooled into thinking it was never a problem to begin with. It was, and is. There in lies our problem.
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  2. #12
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    I say we get out and act like Americans. Did the early settlers have guarantees of safety when they began expanding across our nation? No. The founding fathers fought the Revolutionary War during a smallpox outbreak.

    I commented last week about fear is being weaponized against society. How many blue governors' speeches have sounded something this: "we are trying to give you a bit of security and safety and we're gonna have to suppress your liberties in order to accomplish it?" Does that sound familiar? It should; at least half the members here have either quoted (Ben Franklin) this or have it in their signatures.

    If we do open and have an adverse outcome, it will be better to have fought and died rather to have never fought at all.
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  3. #13
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    This is a very big country and the COVID-19 situation is different all over; not only from state to state, but from county to county and town to town within a state. Blanket rules and regulations/recommendations are truly guidelines that may or may not be applicable at any given time because the situation is different everywhere...and every day!

    Has there been political "cause and effect"? Of course! Like so many other situations, each of us must be responsible to work through the haze of political fog, and determine for ourselves what we as individuals, a state, and a federation of states are going to do about it.
    Last edited by Sekol; 05-16-2020 at 08:34 PM.
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  5. #14
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    Look, People die. That's the end result of living. Our lives are finite and our bodies are actually pretty frail when it comes down to it. Knowing this, all life loss is acceptable as we cannot, and do not live forever. The issue is timing and cause of death. If you look at how many people die due to automobiles yearly, that's close to 1.3 million. If you lock down the country for 1/4 of the year, you reduce that number by 325,000. Covid has a ways to go to offset the rate of death by cars alone. If you completely shut down the economy for an extended period of time, you collapse society and upwards of 200 MILLION die. I have faith that at least 125-130 million will be able to survive with societal collapse and having to live off the land. Yes, I am very optimistic in that regard.
    So which is the preferred method of living; knowing that .5% are going to die from Covid or knowing that 66% are going to die due to a complete collapse?
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    No one is going to force anyone to keep from sheltering by opening the economy back up. Let the healthy, non-infirm people go full bore into reopening the country, except for the hot spots, and maybe even there also. Being an old fart with scars on my lungs, I'll still mask up going to the grocery store, practice good hygiene, take some zinc and Vitamin D and Vitamin C on a regular basis.

    Lubbock 310,000 pop. is averaging about 5 new cases a day over the past two weeks, so I think that is much better odds than I have getting into a car wreck. Only 3 cases if the virus today in Lubbock.

    I'm considering sending emails to Realtors in Lubbock next week to advertise my remodeling services.
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  7. #16
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    Our Gov. Wolf has been one of the more heavy handed in his handling of this virus. No I never voted for him and never will, but I would love to hear from him as to what the exact number of acceptable deaths would be, from the virus, to reopen our state.
    CaptainMorgan likes this.
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  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Ape View Post
    I question whether you're actually understanding what I'm saying. Please read my first post #5 if you haven't. I'm not in favor of us all being locked away for more weeks upon weeks. I am however greatly in favor of opening back up gradually and safely. Unfortunately, far too many people aren't on board with gradually or safely. If left to their own devices and whims on how they care to react to this virus, far too many people will choose unwisely for us to collectively have any real success I'm afraid. We lack a unified collective response where we are all in the same boat rowing in the same direction, and that's ultimately going to kill tens of thousands more that probably wouldn't need to die if we had firm rules in place that we were all willing to follow. But some people just aren't willing to wear masks, social distance, wash their hands properly, head nod instead of handshake, until we can much better get this under control. Some folks have been fooled into thinking we do have in under control. We don't. Others have been fooled into thinking it was never a problem to begin with. It was, and is. There in lies our problem.
    We're a country of 320 million people....I think it's unreasonable for anybody to expect that anything near half, much less a majority, would do the expected thing or the thing that somebody deems to be the right thing. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about that. It's also been shown that you can't legislate or executive order your way to compliance. There are only so many police, only so many lawmakers, and heavy-handedness in trying to get people to do something always, always comes off as tyrannical. All you can do is put out there the logic of continued vigilance, the logic of not getting out unless you really need to, especially if you're in a high risk group, but ultimately you have to give the people of this land the freedom to do what they're going to do, however that may turn out.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin

    When Leonidas was preparing to make his stand, a Persian envoy arrived. The envoy explained to Leonidas the futility of trying to resist the advance of the huge Persian army and demanded that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas told Xerxes "MOLON LABE", or "Come And Get Them."

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  9. #18
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    We have been keeping the weak and frail alive and protected for years with modern medicine. This virus is no big threat to the healthy population. This was and is the wrong approach as their was boo containing it. This was sold to us as away to keep hospitals from over loading. This never happened. It only over load the very old and weak in nursing homes. Protect the weak and old and move on already. Its a done deal. Its not going to get any better than it is now. If I were not 59 with a clotting issue taking care of my terminal 83yr Oldman I would be using a mask and going about my day. It is what it is. My Kids and other family are helping keep us locked down here as they are going out and about their everyday life. The sun comes up and it will, With or without you.

  10. #19
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    No economy makes health care a moot point. Millions out of work. No health insurance. Exactly where the Progs want America. On its knees and failing. Bam! National Healthcare. Rationed- and not to the ones sick with COVID19- they will be left to die. Hospitals virtually shut down waiting for virus patients that never came. Nurses actually getting unemployment! A first! Nope ! America works best when Anerica works and manufactures. They will come.
    CaptainMorgan and darbo like this.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativeTexan View Post
    The economy should have never been "shut down" in the first place. And the governors don't have the constitutional powers to do such a thing, but to hell with the constitution, they don't believe in it. Flu comes and flu goes. Do we shut everything down every time the flu hits us?

    If you don't wanna go to work, I'm sure someone will take your job.
    This is not "the flu."

    Both lobsters and tarantulas are "arachnids," but one tastes good dipped in butter and one does not. Just because this is a "coronavirus" in physical attributes doesn't mean it's just "the flu."

    If you start looking at what the coronavirus-19 actually does in the body--how it kills--you realize this is not like any kind of flu you've ever had. The coronavirus-19 attacks people in more different ways than any other disease, and the medical community is continually discovering all the ways it is attacking people.

    And that's why to me the biggest blind spot of the government is not realizing right off the bat--because the experts were saying this between the lines--that no shut down could go on as long as it would take to develop a vaccine. Nobody ever said it would take less than a year.

    The medical people, unfortunately, are only thinking about clinical needs: What they need to deal with the problem.For them, "lockdown until vaccine" was always their plan...they couldn't see it any other way. Ever see the movie "The Andromeda Strain?" Lock it down until we have vaccine is the only way they think. They are tunnel visioned. That doesn't mean they're bad people...it's fairly rare that people so totally involved in their work can get their heads out of their own flower patch to see the entire garden.

    But the politicians unfortunately interpreted it wrong because of their own tunnel vision. They didn't understand the totality of what the medical experts were saying because "lockdown until vaccine" just didn't compute in their heads. BTZZZ. "He must have meant lock down just for a few weeks. Until the curve flattened. That must be what he said."

    If they had understood what the medical experts meant, they would have realized, "We can't lock down that long, we'll have to figure out how to carry out business within the contagion."

    That is an old problem for the military. We've always known that we can't stop a war just because it went chemical or biological...we would have to fight within the contagion. So we developed protective gear to do so.

    Our leadership has squandered the last four months by not ramping up US production of protective gear (converting large portions of industry to PPE production) so that the working population could carry out business within the contagion.

    In fact, the government has stood in the way of industry doing it themselves, such as blocking General Motors from producing more N95 masks after GM had already converted an auto assembly line to do so. And the FDA blocking ethanol makers from making alcohol. And the government and medical community shunning gun manufacturers who have converted assembly lines to making masks...because they make guns, man!

    That's what I'm most torqued about.
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