Legal Ramifications of Small Caliber Self Defense
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Thread: Legal Ramifications of Small Caliber Self Defense

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    Legal Ramifications of Small Caliber Self Defense

    I was reading a thread started in September.
    It mentioned the lack of power of a .25 cal compared to even a .22lr. And a BG wearing a leather jacket.

    The whole things brings back our CC instructor talked about in class. We were told to aim for the center of the largest mass. That makes sense of course. We were told NOT to aim for the head because it would look more like an execution to a grand jury. That makes sense too.

    But what if you are carrying a .25 and a 250lb biker wearing a leather jacket is headed your way to do you harm? If you have that extra second to analyse the totality of thug vs gun, would you be inclined to aim for an area other than the jacket?
    That leaves you with two primary target areas. Head vs groin. Maybe the leg too.

    If you go for the head you run the risk of a grand jury thinking execution. If you go for the groin they may think vendetta or trying to teach a lesson. Basically I wonder if their thought process might be "If he had time to think about small gun vs leather jacket, he had time to run.".

    Does it come down to a small caliber means teaching the BG a lesson? Where as a large caliber means you are serious about protecting your life? In legal terms that is.

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    Have to raise the "BS" Flag :bs: on the execution theory.

    Over the last 43 years of my career I've testified in a number of shooting cases in both depositions and trial. The "main issue" (down here) is whether or not the shooting was "Justified".

    The gun or ammo used have never been a question.

    One can not be "Excessively Dead", either the shooting is justified or it's not.
    Sekol, Divebum, bre346 and 2 others like this.
    NULLI SECUNDUS

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    Have to raise the "BS" Flag :bs: on the execution theory.
    That's just the way the instructor put it. I think it was another way of forcing us to think center of mass is easier to hit.

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    I would say there would be more legal ramifications, if any, if you used something like a .44 mag or greater.
    Why has the world gone to hell since John Wayne died?

    Help save America, have your liberal spayed or neutered.

    "If the federal government could control anything, I could probably listen to that gibberish, but when they do such a horrible job in controlling spending, borrowing, controlling illegal drugs and illegal aliens coming into this country while they give AK-47s to Mexican drug lords through Fast and Furious, I don’t see much hope in them even beginning to control guns."

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    This is another one of those "what if" scenarios that regularly surface on the Internet. How many of us have EVER engaged a 250 lb., drug-fueled, Mr. America, with anything? For myself, if that were who was going tom attack me, I'd be patiently waiting for him to center himself against my daisy-chained Claymores. A little "click'll do ya'".

    Against such a person, especially shooting COM, six 9x19 +P+++++ rounds is guaranteed to tick him off, period. Even six .45 ACP +P rounds won't guarantee a stop in COM. What is universally taught in a failure to stop drill? A Head Shot. If that is true, aren't we giving lie to the execution theory?

    "Ladies and gentleman of the jury, Mr. Gun-crazy drew his pistol and fired two rounds into the chest of this poor biker. Grievously wounding him. Them to insure a "kill", he "executed" him with an assassin's bullet to the head. I call for the Death Penalty."

    Really? If we have to shoot someone, are you going to stand there and keep shooting, then, maybe, throw the gun at him? I will be moving to cover. If I'm still being pursued, the next magazine will be fired as I move to greater cover, and a ways to exit the scene. I don't care if the attacker is wounded, deafened, or killed. I simply want him to STOP. He could be out of breath from chasing me, I don't care.
    Divebum, bre346, TXEric and 1 others like this.

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    You shoot until the threat is over, whether it be 15 shots to the chest or one to the head. I'm going center mass first, then if that doesn't work, that container on his shoulders is next
    bre346, JoshNix9, mingaa and 1 others like this.
    ‘‘It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.’’ - Justice Robert H. Jackson


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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    Really? If we have to shoot someone, are you going to stand there and keep shooting, then, maybe, throw the gun at him? I will be moving to cover. If I'm still being pursued, the next magazine will be fired as I move to greater cover, and a ways to exit the scene. I don't care if the attacker is wounded, deafened, or killed. I simply want him to STOP. He could be out of breath from chasing me, I don't care.
    The only time I ever plan to "stand my ground" is if I am protecting somebody (a family member?). Quite frankly, where I hit the the perp is not my problem.
    mingaa likes this.
    (this space intentionally left blank)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    This is another one of those "what if" scenarios that regularly surface on the Internet. How many of us have EVER engaged a 250 lb., drug-fueled, Mr. America, with anything? For myself, if that were who was going tom attack me, I'd be patiently waiting for him to center himself against my daisy-chained Claymores. A little "click'll do ya'".

    Against such a person, especially shooting COM, six 9x19 +P+++++ rounds is guaranteed to tick him off, period. Even six .45 ACP +P rounds won't guarantee a stop in COM. What is universally taught in a failure to stop drill? A Head Shot. If that is true, aren't we giving lie to the execution theory?

    "Ladies and gentleman of the jury, Mr. Gun-crazy drew his pistol and fired two rounds into the chest of this poor biker. Grievously wounding him. Them to insure a "kill", he "executed" him with an assassin's bullet to the head. I call for the Death Penalty."

    Really? If we have to shoot someone, are you going to stand there and keep shooting, then, maybe, throw the gun at him? I will be moving to cover. If I'm still being pursued, the next magazine will be fired as I move to greater cover, and a ways to exit the scene. I don't care if the attacker is wounded, deafened, or killed. I simply want him to STOP. He could be out of breath from chasing me, I don't care.
    Escape is priority one. As JR says you shoot to gain cover or depart. I realize people like to discuss possible scenarios and we need
    to. We also need to worry more about whether we will be able to pull and shoot in a crisis as apposed to whether you should carry
    a .22LR or a .500 Magnum.

    I will say this, if you have time to draw a bead for a head shot your threat might not be that great.

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    A good shoot, is a good shoot, no matter where the intended target is struck.
    MOONDAWG likes this.
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    You guys over think this stuff. Personally, I don't want any legal crap to intrude on my thoughts in a survival situation.
    Battle of Wanat: 10 years ago last 13 July, 1LT Brostram was killed in combat killing the last enemy combatant in the outpost. The LT went to the point of decision and made the difference that turned the tide of the battle. The original investigation found the Bde Cmdr, the Bn Cmdr and the Co Cmdr at fault for dereliction of duty. If you want to see what a sarcastic silver star citation reads like, pull up the company commander's silver star.

 

 
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