When to act and when not to act...
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 61
  1. #1
    Member
    Member #
    17578
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    53
    Liked
    51 times

    When to act and when not to act...

    Imagine you are in your favorite convenience store with a concealed handgun. You just stopped to get some milk and a loaf of bread on your way home. Some crazy-eyed critter comes in with a gun and starts waving it around, demanding the cashier give him all the money in the register. There's a couple of other customers in the store, all scared, as you are.

    What do you do? What factors/risks/alternatives do you consider?

    Under what circumstances would you be most likely to pull your gun?

    And, under what circumstances would you be most likely not go for your gun?

    I am reminded of the first part of the Hippocratic Oath (you know, the one the doctors swear to), that says, "First, do no harm".

    I guess, I'm driving at the idea that if you can't improve the situation, do nothing, armed or not. Of course, if the "crazy-eyed critter" starts shooting, that's another story.....
    ..."If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

    Abraham Lincoln

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Member #
    14722
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    central Ohio
    Posts
    1,203
    Liked
    3 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    I agree with you. Every situation is going to be different but I'm a firm believer that one should take advantage of training if it is available. In the academy, we spent lots of time reviewing security tapes and running over different scenarios to attempt to gain as much knowledge as possible but even with having that resource, one never knows just what the situation is going to call for until it is presented. Being thrust into a scene like that can be scary for a trained professional, let alone a newly licensed ccw holder. When you draw your weapon, you are now responsible for anything that happens as a result of you doing so, and that includes any bystanders that may be shot by your gun or the perps. gun. A prosecutor is going to argue that if you hadn't pulled your gun, the scene may or may not have escallated to the point of gunfire. Of coarse,as you said beyu, if the criminal starts shooting, your decision may be made for you.
    I can't go to work today,the voices said "Stay home and clean the guns"!

  3. #3
    Member
    Member #
    17578
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    53
    Liked
    51 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    Very informative.

    I suppose one thing we all depend upon is our ability (or not) to "read" the intentions of the criminal. If he gives all indications that he WANTS to kill someone, then your decision will be different than if he just seems to be interested in getting the cash and getting out.

    That may sound like I think we can read minds, but that is not what I mean. I think we have all met someone where we knew straight off there was something wrong about them, something about their eyes, their over all behavior.

    The situation would also change if he comes over to you and demands your wallet. Now what? I suspect one practical response is to pretend to reach for your cash, present the gun instead, and shoot him in the forehead. He may be so surprised by your response that he would delay just long enough to give you the chance?

    ..."If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

    Abraham Lincoln

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TaurusArmed.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Member #
    10091
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    788
    Liked
    6 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    Real simple. Someone is armed and starts waving it around in my face or someone elses, and I can get to my gun safely, the last thing to cross his mind will be a .40 PDX1. All deals are off when someone draws a weapon. You may be willing to wait around and see if he is going to kill someone or not? I've got two kids and a wife, so i'm sure not.
    Glock 27
    Sig Sauer SP2340
    Taurus PT 145
    Rossi 357
    Taurus PT 709SS
    Marlin XL7 w/ Nikon 3-9X50
    Mossberg 500A
    ISSC M22
    NEF Pardner 12GA Pump

  6. #5
    Member
    Member #
    17113
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    36
    Liked
    1 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    A decision I hope I never have to make...

    Given the "time" to make a choice to DRAW or SHOOT... Point being, if perp is in front of you in line, behind you in line, 10 ft away, if you walk up and notice, wife/kids beside you...If a gun is DRAWN and being pointed at a cashier, do you DRAW and shout "drop it" with the chance he will turn on you. OR...do you just SHOOT taking into account that perp pulled a gun and was threatening? Can you "cover" and draw?...greater chances of survival? Willing to take that chance?

    That's not something I'm trained to do but it goes threw my mind all the time!

    I would hope I had the wits and nerve to SHOOT. Perp is armed and dangerous = THREAT.
    Perp made the decision to pull a gun on someone = consequences!

    Right, Wrong, Legal? Great post for discussion BEYU...
    24/7 OSS DS .45ACP

  7. #6
    Member
    Member #
    17590
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lorimor, Iowa
    Posts
    66
    Liked
    1 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    I'm reminded on an incident at a Las Vegas convenience store where the robber was waving a gun around and demanding cash. The clerk gave him money from the register and on his way out the door he shot a woman who was sitting at a slot machine. She didn't make any threatening moves, just sitting, and he shot almost as an afterthought.

    It's an interesting question. If I'm legally armed, what is my responsibility to others who are caught up in the situation?

  8. #7
    Member
    Member #
    17578
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    53
    Liked
    51 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavon
    A decision I hope I never have to make...


    Right, Wrong, Legal? Great post for discussion BEYU...
    I thought it would be. And, of course, the time to think it through is BEFORE it happens.
    ..."If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

    Abraham Lincoln

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Member #
    11362
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    492
    Liked
    35 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    For me, I think it would boil down to whether doing something would endanger anyone other than the perp. If the perp is pointing his gun at the cashier or some other customer, I would hold off on the fear that the perp might shoot who he's pointing his gun at if confronted. It's hard to say exactly what one would or should do, but I agree with beyu on the premise of "First, do no harm," that is, to everyone involved except the perp (he deserves what he gets).

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Member #
    12454
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    649
    Liked
    543 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    The response would certainly depend upon the exact circumstances as has already been noted. I believe it it to be most likely that the perp would be concentrated more upon the cashier than anyone else. Assuming this, I would inconspicuously move to cover or concealment if that were possible. I would empty both hands as inconspicuously as possible as well, or at least attempt to do so with my strong-side hand. Then one has to evaluate what is happening. If one truly believes the cashier's (or anyone's) life is in immediate danger, and it very well may be, then I would immediate draw and shoot as soon as that determination was made and a clear shot was available. If it did not appear, for whatever reason, that anyone's life was in immediate danger, then I would remain in concealment and continue to monitor until the confrontation was over or it had to be escalated. Once the situation was over I would go to the restroom and wipe. It's fairly easy to block these actions out while sitting at a keyboard. Not so much in the middle of the incident.
    If you want the money out of politics take the power out of government.

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Member #
    12454
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    649
    Liked
    543 times

    Re: When to act and when not to act...

    Quote Originally Posted by calmb4thestorm
    If the perp is pointing his gun at the cashier or some other customer, I would hold off on the fear that the perp might shoot who he's pointing his gun at if confronted.
    I, personally, would not confront. If I have already made the determination that the shooting is justified, I have no qualms about shooting the perp in the back. That may not hold true afterward, but for now it does. As the saying goes, if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics s*ck. As far as I'm concerned, if a person purposely puts another in mortal peril for the sake of personal gain, they have forfeited any expectation of a fair fight. YMMV
    If you want the money out of politics take the power out of government.

 

 
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •