Winter Carry Load? - Page 4
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 50
Like Tree92Likes

Thread: Winter Carry Load?

  1. #31
    Member
    Member #
    77473
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Pac NW
    Posts
    46
    Liked
    52 times
    I've only heard about concerns over lack of expansion due to being clogged. Never really cared about that. That's always going to be a concern unless the target is naked. There's always going to be something unpredictable there. On every self defense forum I read people talking about carrying because they're worried about drug crazed or mentally ill violent people. What about that type of person makes you think they're going to be dressed properly for the weather?
    olfarhors likes this.

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Member #
    49535
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    midwest usa
    Posts
    3,169
    Liked
    3693 times
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaBravoKS View Post
    Do you recall the differences between the ammo? I'm no ballistic expert, but I assume that a smaller round (like a .25) would more easily pierce clothing and/or flesh (easier to stick a pin your finger than a pen). That may help offset the lesser amount of powder pushing it. Of course, I'm sure all this has been researched ad infinitum on the Internets.
    All three of the brands tested were .25 acp FMJ round nose, same bullet weight. (50 grains) The only difference was that 2 of the 3 brands seemed to be not loaded with the correct amount of gunpowder. I don't reload but someone on here who does related that the difference in grains in a .25 acp is very small and it might be easy to put in the wrong amount of gunpowder at the factory. Unfortunately I did not have a chronograph to test velocity.

    Strangely the worst ammo of the group, the one that only nicked the outside of the 2X4 and bounced off, did not cause a malfunction of the handgun. The FIE Titan was a simple blowback, and it's not a hard gun to operate the slide, unlike the Beretta .25 acp handgun.

    As far as smaller diameter calibers penetrating better than larger ones with the same bullet shape, I'm no ballistics expert either, but I yes in some cases that is true. A good example is an old army film on youtube where it shows the .45 acp ball round denting the steel pot type army helmet but a 124 grain 9X19 penetrated. It might only be true however because in some cases you have rounds, particularly handgun rounds, that are not only smaller diameter but lighter in weight as well, and traveling at higher velocities. For example, I used to own a pistol that had barrels and magazines for either 9X19 or 7.62 X 25. The standard 7.62 did penetrate better but the bullet velocity was allegedly 300 fps faster than the 124 nine mil standard load. I can't prove it but I suspect that if you had a 9mm diameter bullet traveling at the same speed as the 7.62X25 you might get the same or better penetration. And if you could fire a .45 diameter bullet at similar velocities to the 9X19 it would probably penetrate the helmet as well.

    Or for another example, take the same .22lr load out of a short barrel handgun and check the penetration on a certain medium, then do another test using the same round from an 18 inch rifle where the velocity is higher.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Member #
    56609
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,923
    Liked
    2431 times
    Or you could have the best of both worlds and carry .40 S&W.

    Seriously though, I've seen my share of testing performed on various forms of body armor and while .45 ACP doesn't penetrate, the energy transfer if evident by just how hard the target gets shaken up by the impact, and in many cases whatever is beneath the armor shows quite a bit of visible damage in the form of dents, blemishes, or cracks. Besides, most modern day body armor that will stop a .45 will also stop a 9mm or anything short of .454 Cassul, so personally I would opt for the .45 simply because it will hit harder, and broken ribs can still be deadly.

    Fortunately though, most of the guys who would break into ordinary houses at night probably aren't wearing full body armor, and even if they are, that armor won't help much against Buckshot, Slugs, or especially a Rifle.
    Tracker627 likes this.
    "If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?" - Tuco Remírez - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Same

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TaurusArmed.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #34
    Senior Member
    Member #
    58521
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    284
    Liked
    239 times
    But what if your wearing a high tech fleece bullet backstop with oranges underneath.... And then a Carhartt......😁
    357Funtime likes this.

  6. #35
    Senior Member
    Member #
    49535
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    midwest usa
    Posts
    3,169
    Liked
    3693 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco_Ramírez View Post
    Or you could have the best of both worlds and carry .40 S&W.

    Seriously though, I've seen my share of testing performed on various forms of body armor and while .45 ACP doesn't penetrate, the energy transfer if evident by just how hard the target gets shaken up by the impact, and in many cases whatever is beneath the armor shows quite a bit of visible damage in the form of dents, blemishes, or cracks. Besides, most modern day body armor that will stop a .45 will also stop a 9mm or anything short of .454 Cassul, so personally I would opt for the .45 simply because it will hit harder, and broken ribs can still be deadly.

    Fortunately though, most of the guys who would break into ordinary houses at night probably aren't wearing full body armor, and even if they are, that armor won't help much against Buckshot, Slugs, or especially a Rifle.

    It depends on the rating of the body armor. Back in the 80's I assisted an LEO who was testing out some panels of body armor from a company called Second Chance, who made some pretty impressive claims about their model Y armor. In our testing the panels stopped almost all typical handgun rounds from 22.lr to 9mm to 45 to 44 magnum. Also stopped OO buck and rifled slugs at 10 yards. We didn't even bother testing any rifle rounds, as the model Y panel wasn't rated to stop those anyway. We did test a .30 carbine from an M1 carbine I owned at the time and it sailed right thru. There was an incident back then of a LEO who was shot with a 12 gauge slug round and survived without any life threatening injuries. I can't recall if he was shot in the chest or back.

    Of course the thing about buckshot was that in the testing all the shot was in the chest area of the target. The typical spread for the police shotgun was about 1 inch per yard. Had he aimed higher, some of the pellets would've been above the chest area where the vest was designed to protect. the issue though for law enforcement, particularly if you are outdoors in a densely populated environment was the training was to aim to keep all the shot within the torso area. Even one piece of buck that misses the BG could potentially hit an innocent person. so the only time we were allowed to shoot higher than the torso area was is it was suspected or known that the BG was wearing a vest. For example, although the mass shooter at the 5th 3rd bank in Cincinnati Ohio was hit with a variety of rounds, the coroner allegedly said that what stopped the BG was a single piece of buckshot to the head area.
    Last edited by pegasus; 01-25-2020 at 09:59 PM.

  7. #36
    Senior Member
    Member #
    11801
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Georgia
    Posts
    34,748
    Liked
    27283 times
    Quote Originally Posted by 357Funtime View Post
    I've only heard about concerns over lack of expansion due to being clogged. Never really cared about that. That's always going to be a concern unless the target is naked. There's always going to be something unpredictable there. On every self defense forum I read people talking about carrying because they're worried about drug crazed or mentally ill violent people. What about that type of person makes you think they're going to be dressed properly for the weather?

    Yea! I carry exactly the same ammo in winter as I do in summer, or in Spring, or in fall.
    I practice as much as possible instead of worrying about things that I can't control like what someone is wearing.
    around here you need to have a test trying to shoot through like 3 pairs of pants, is that considered body Armor?
    get proficient as you can with accuracy, speed and multiple shots is my idea!
    slong115, pegasus and oso like this.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
    Currently Professionally Retired Old Person.

  8. #37
    Senior Member
    Member #
    48248
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    arkansas
    Posts
    876
    Liked
    1195 times
    After reading all these posts I'm just going to walk around with an AT4 or RPG at the ready. Screw it. Changing up guns up is to much.

    Realistically though:
    Snub nose 454 casull is a good all year around round.
    Last edited by Brian845; 01-30-2020 at 01:17 PM.
    Speed doesn't kill you. It's the sudden stop. That's what gets you.

  9. #38
    Senior Member
    Member #
    36191
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    4,943
    Liked
    3337 times
    I don't change for seasons. I figure if one 115gr didn't work, try another and another till it does!
    olfarhors and pegasus like this.
    Life is full of give and take. Give thanks and take nothing for granted!

  10. #39
    Senior Member
    Member #
    13828
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    26,539
    Liked
    36170 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian845 View Post
    After reading all these posts I'm just going to walk around with an AT4 or RPG at the ready. Screw it. Changing up guns up is to much.

    Realistically though:
    Snub nose 454 casull is a good all year around round.
    Too wimpy. Get a .460 S&W. You can then load it with .454 for the wife.

    Or just don't worry about it. I read The Armed Citizen every month, issue doesn't come up. Has anybody ever collected any statistics on failure to expand in the real world.
    Last edited by MadKaw; 02-02-2020 at 09:19 AM.
    olfarhors and jtg452 like this.
    Keeper of The Pledge

    GCS d? s+: a+++ C++ UL++++ P+ L++ E W++ N++ o+ K- w
    O M-- V-- PS+++ PE++ Y++ PGP++ t 5++ X- R+ tv+ b++++ DI++++ D+
    G-- e+++ h---- r+++ y+++ PL++++

    ∀xx ∃xy | xx∇xy > 0

    If the Russians hacked Clinton's email then she is guilty of a felony for exposing classified information to a hostile government.

  11. #40
    Senior Member
    Member #
    11801
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Georgia
    Posts
    34,748
    Liked
    27283 times
    Quote Originally Posted by MadKaw View Post
    Too wimpy. Get a .460 S&W. You can then load it with .454 for the wife.

    Or just don't worry about it. I read The Armed Citizen every month, issue doesn't come up. Has anybody ever collected any statistics on failure to expand in the real world.
    gosh I am old ,kind of feeble minded , a product of the public School system, but I often wonder if the idea of carrying a FMJ/ hard lead projectile is to increase penetration with extra heavy winter clothing and IF the so called problem with a expanding point jhp is lack of penetration, as to clogging, well would that not increase the penetration of a non expanded JHP?
    I am asking this for a friend by the way!
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
    Currently Professionally Retired Old Person.

 

 
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •