Firearm Suggestion - Raging Bull in 45-70 Gov't

[458okie]

To the nay-sayers, this would be a big seller with handgun hunters, not necessarily target shooters...but, well, yes...those who hunt with this would have to sight it in.

[458okie]

Some interesting stats on the 45-70 Gov't in a revolver from the Magnum Research site, which is why I feel the "Gov't Bull" by Taurus would make a huge market splash and be viable:

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Adapted from Magnum Research site:

RECOIL

The BFR in 45/70 recoils less than any .44 Magnum that weighs under 3-pounds.

Recoil is a factor of bullet weight, velocity and gun weight.

Remember recoil is not a factor of size, just because it is physically large does not mean that it recoils large. The BFR simply weighs a little more than other revolvers because of its heavy design for powerful ammunition. The added weight makes the gun balance better, makes it easier to hold steady and makes it recoil less…Period.

The 45/70 will produce the same velocity as the 454 Casull with 2/3 less pressure, and a lot less noise and muzzle flash. This is because the 45/70 case is longer so it allows for different types of gunpowder to be used and the case has more room for the burning and expanding gases to expand. The end result is less pressure, less wear and tear on the gun, less noise and less recoil.

SAFETY

The BFR uses a transfer bar that will not allow the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled back to release the hammer only after it has been fully cocked. There is no need to carry the gun with an empty chamber while hunting. The BFR will not fire if it has been accidentally dropped.

Special processes are used for heat treating critical parts.

All guns are proof fired after assembly to insure integrity of the entire revolver and its total function.

RECOIL OF FACTORY REVOLVERS AND LOADS

Formula: Add velocity to bullet weight and multiply that number by the velocity. Then divide by the weight of the firearm multiplied by 80.

BFR .450 Marlin, 10-Inch
4.5 lbs.
350-gr. Bullet
1814 FPS
109.04 Recoil Factor

BFR .45/70, 7.5-Inch
4.4 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1472 FPS
74.1 Recoil Factor

BFR .480, 7.5-Inch
3.75 lbs.
325-gr. Bullet
1409 FPS
81.44 Recoil Factor

Redhawk .480, 7.5-Inch
3.3 lbs.
325-gr. Bullet
1409 FPS
92.55 Recoil Factor

Redhawk .454, 7.5-Inch
3.3 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1600 FPS
115.15 Recoil Factor

Freedom Arms .454, 7.5-Inch
3.25 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1600 FPS
116.92 Recoil Factor

Super Blackhawk .44, 8-Inch
2.9 lbs.
240-gr. Bullet
1400 FPS
98.96 Recoil Factor

BFR .45/70 recoils less than all of the above guns including the lowly .44 Magnum with a 4 5/8-inch barrel. The advantages of the .45/70 over the .454 Casull are that the .45/70 is an extremely potent hunting cartridge that is loaded at EXTREMELY low pressures. The Casull is loaded at over 50,000 PSI and the .45/70 is loaded under 25,000 PSI. The .45/70 can be hand-loaded to exceed .454 Casull velocity and still be under 30,000 PSI! There is the big advantage. Much less recoil and half the working pressure means the guns will shoot better and last longer. Ammo is also a lot less expensive and more readily available. THE LONG .45/70 CARTRIDGE DOES NOT MEAN MORE RECOIL IT MEANS MUCH LESS PRESSURE BECAUSE THE POWDER HAS MORE ROOM TO EXPAND, GIVING EQUAL PERFORMANCE WITH LESS PRESSURE.

BFR VELOCITY WITH SELECTED AMMO
(All tested with PACT Chronograph)

.45/70, 7.5-Inch Barrel

300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1472 FPS and muzzle energy 1444 FT/LBS

300 grain Winchester Super X, average 1272 FPS and muzzle energy 1078 FL/LBS

405 grain PMC, average 980 FPS and muzzle energy 864 FT/LBS


.45/70, 10-Inch Barrel

300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1507 FPS and muzzle energy 1513 FT/LBS

300 grain Winchester Super X, average 1405 FPS and muzzle energy 1315 FT/LBS

405 grain PMC, average 1056 FPS and muzzle energy 1003 FT/LBS

[TheOldRedneck]

You have been doing your home work. Just to keep you interested a friend that liked my BFR started shooting it with 300 grain loads and was impressed that recoil was less than his 44mag Ruger with 240 grain loads. Also that a BFR 45/70 with a 4 X handgun scope shot under 4" at a 100 yards from bags. The guy that owned it let him shoot and he said it was like shooting a rifle off the bags. Just something to think about if Taurus doesn't come out with one. After shooting both the 7" and 10" I bought the 10". 7" blows a lot of powder with some loads, 10" runs with just about any load. Taller front sights are offered on another forum for heavy loads, and load data.

[johnburgelin]

Bring on the Govt Bull!

[RevolverFan]

Ya know, Taurus has made other chamberings which seem improbable (5mm revolver anyone?), so why not a 45/70? It seems to me that it would be a great companion for someone in Alaska who is already carrying something like a Marlin 1895G for field work or protection.......

[458okie]

I sent a letter to Taurus CEO (even referenced this thread!), just for the heck of it hockin' the idea of this gun, which Taurus could EASILY do considering their Raging Judge!

Let's keep our fingers crossed and I encourage you all to join me in writing Taurus to help give the "Gov't Bull" the light of day!

[TheOldRedneck]

Got the 45/70 BFR out yesterday and cleaned it. Friend is trying to find the time to load a few rounds for his single shot rifle, ( Sharps replica), and come shoot both. He shot the BFR and loves it, he is taking it to shoot at some of the shoots he goes to. Would love to see a Taurus with cylinder long enough for the heavy cast bullets. Even loaded down they have a lot of energy. Being able to mount a scope on the rib would be another plus. Hang in there.

[458okie]

Good evening Taurus community! I received a pleasant response from Mr. Kresser, President and CEO of Taurus regarding the letter I sent! Oh, heck...I just have to share it verbatim!:

"Dear Mr. Wickstrom:

Thank you very much for your support and your enthusiastic idea of the "Gov't Bull." I like it!

I really appreciate hearing from you and we will certainly take into consideration your thoughts.
I cannot really specify if and when this would become effective, but we value your intake.

Please accept a token of our appreciation and keep in touch.

Best regards,



Mark Kresser
President and CEO

mk"

PS: The token of appreciation he sent me was actually a Benchmade Mini Griptillian Special Lasermark knife with the Taurus Logo on it, as well as the inscription "Gov't Bull, 1 of 1" on the blade! How cool is that! I will certainly send a letter of thanks to Mr. Kresser. I did not expect such a nice gift, and honestly didn't expect anything at all...just wanting/intending on my part to merely plant an idea in the creative and fertile minds of the folks at Taurus. I just hope the "seed" has been planted for the "Gov't Bull," and that they give me a nice discount on a "Gov't Bull" if the idea comes to fruition/reality! lol

[TheOldRedneck]

See if the moderators will move this thread to the new suggestion area. Congrats on at least getting your request heard. Let me know if they produce it, I'll buy one and let a friend have my BFR.

[jimb1972]

If bigger is better, why not go whole hog and introduce a .45-70 revolver. I remember a poorly executed example of one from the 80's, I think Taurus could do a nicer stainless version.