Update on 617Ti lazer. The Crimson trace grip lazer for the Judge does indeed fit my 617Ti like a glove and works great. This being the case, all you 617/817 owners who want to lazer up should be able to use this grip. This grip should fit all 'compact' frames.. hate to ever use the word 'all'. I feel much better with the lazer. Contrary to the ...draw, sight and shoot... post, the lazer dot is much easier/quicker to pick up than the sights on a 2 inch barrel. In my practice so far it is now 'easy' to land that first shot, single or double action inside 3 seconds from all combat distances. The lazer also allows you to shoot accurately from awkard postitions, postitions you may very well find yourself in when someone is shooting at you. Hard to see the downside of a lazer on your gun as long as you still know how to draw, sight and shoot in case of falure. Thanks for the help on the grip.