1992 pt92 af not good for +p+? - Page 2
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Thread: 1992 pt92 af not good for +p+?

  1. #11
    JR
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    SAAMI catalogs several +Pm pressures. The .38 Special, .38 Super, 9mm, and .45 ACP are the ONLY +P rated cartridges recognized by SAAMI.

    +P+, and other + designations are performance based designations. A group will contract with a manufacturer for a caliber, bullet weight and shape, and velocity or energy level. Pressures for such ammunition are generally limited to less than proof load pressures. The ordering group holds the manufacturer exempt from any claims resulting from accelerated wear, or destruction, caused by the use of the ammunition.

    +P tends to be about 10% higher than standard maximum pressures. Until the past decade, manufacturers tended to advise against the use of such loads. Mostly, I feel, to avoid additional warranty claims, and to protect themselves from law-suits by avaricious lawyers. Now, due to market pressures, the use of +P ammunition is included under Warranty. A note here is that Ruger has always printed that the gun will shoot anything made by a manufacturer in their handguns.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR View Post
    SAAMI catalogs several +Pm pressures. The .38 Special, .38 Super, 9mm, and .45 ACP are the ONLY +P rated cartridges recognized by SAAMI.
    .
    True, except while the 38 Super does carry the Plus P designation actual pressures and or velocities were not increased from previous non plus P loadings.
    the designation was added to help with prevention of unknowing individuals with 38 Auto pistols using the 38 Super in those weapons.
    even today with only I think 2 manufactures that even list a 38 super as not Plus p, the loadings as to pressure, projectile weight and velocity are equal or about 3% difference in them and plus p 38 super.
    even the reloading manual /recommendations do not distinquish between Plus p loading and standard 38 super loadings.
    This is the only Plus p ammunition that i am aware of like this however.
    Retired Firefighter, Advanced Georgia Master Gardener, Hazardous Material Response Member, Certified Hazardous Material Incident Commander, 1911 Addict and General Gun Lover.
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  3. #13
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    First things first: please read:
    An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Active Response Training

    The blog post above is a compilation of the results of ten years worth of shootings. The takeaway for me is that, while bullet design, caliber, and velocity matter, there is far less difference among handgun calibers than we tend to think.

    The other takeaway is that if you really want good stopping power, user a shotgun or rifle!

    As for 9mm +P vs. non +P, I tend to stick with non +P. For one thing, the five-inch barrel on my PT-99 is going to give a bit of a velocity bump over the 3 and 4 inch barrels that ammo is often carried/tested in these days.

    Right now I've got Speer Gold Dot hollow points. However, I'm planning on picking up some Hornady Critical Defense in 9mm.

    Regards,

    -Drew
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    I hate the whole +P+++++++ thing, in most situations that won't matter one single bit. The BG that gets hit by it shouldn't have the time or ability to ask you what you shot him with, FMJ's have been dropping people world wide for a few years now. Hollow point technology isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, expansion is much more controlled due to the boom of concealed carry and shorter barreled handguns. If i'm Winchester, my JHP MUST meet or exceed Remington performance at least. There's so much competition between ammo companies these days that even range ammo has become more accurate than ever overall. As long as we do our jobs with our hands and eyes, the gun and ammo should do theirs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montkun View Post
    I hate the whole +P+++++++ thing, in most situations that won't matter one single bit. The BG that gets hit by it shouldn't have the time or ability to ask you what you shot him with, FMJ's have been dropping people world wide for a few years now. Hollow point technology isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, expansion is much more controlled due to the boom of concealed carry and shorter barreled handguns. If i'm Winchester, my JHP MUST meet or exceed Remington performance at least. There's so much competition between ammo companies these days that even range ammo has become more accurate than ever overall. As long as we do our jobs with our hands and eyes, the gun and ammo should do theirs.
    Well said very well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mknight View Post
    Well first things first you can never have to many 92's.
    I don't think that idea can be improved on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    Interesting response from Taurus actually?
    seeing as to my knowledge that 9 MM +P+ ammunition does not fall within accepted SAAMI standards for pressure in that caliber.
    can't imagine what you would need that power for in a 9 mm?
    they do make some really nice 9MM +P+ rounds however they are labeled as 357 Sig and 10 MM.
    more power needed, more gun needed!
    Yep, that's what Taurus told me over the phone. I asked when I called to check the year make of the second pt92 I got.. turns out its a 1992 92b.. or that's what I was told.
    Last edited by 94lt1; 09-23-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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    In my 99 Taurus I think the magazines likely have hydra shoks, gold dots, Hornady FTX, remington golden sabres, don't know if any are plus p, but I doubt it.
    now in my Beretta PX4 SC, my stoeger cougar, and my Taurus 24/7 C i carry a 92 grain fiocchi all copper defense round, reason barrel length and velocity from the short barreld weapons, my scientific laboratory testing on milk jugs (even the armored ones wearing denim)in the pasture have resulted in good penetration, good expansion and very good accuracy.
    at 1300 FPS out of a 4 inch barrel I don't think that a plus p is required but we all make our choices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lufbery View Post
    Very good article!
    "Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda

    For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

  11. #20
    JR
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    "- What percentage of shooting incidents resulted in fatalities. For this, I included only hits to the head or torso."

    OK, the author felt that M&S's statistics were skewed because they only included torso shots. Further, they only included data where the single shot caused a stop. Yet, here he is, precluding hits himself. I have seen several fatalities caused by hits on large blood vessels in extremities, such as the brachial artery or the femoral artery. In fact, one of the femoral fatalities had very little external sign of blood loss, as the majority was in the interior. Dead is dead.

    M&S require that every recorded stop have autopsy documentation, police investigation and reconstruction, and views of the bullet. They weren't interested so much in a specific caliber, but in providing guidance in the various bullets in a caliber, and their effectiveness. In some of the calibers that he tested, the results of multiple hits are about the same as recorded by M&S with single hits. On others, they are enhanced, as he also included head shots, which are almost always going to produce at the least a temporary incapacitation with a solid hit. He also included data that was undocumented from the Web.

    Even at the 8% difference he reports, that means that 8 more out of a hundred shootings between two competing calibers will be resolved in favor of the shooter. As we cannot control which "number" we're engaging, I'll pack whatever works the best, in my caliber of choice. Horse races don't pay as a winner if the number two horse was only an inch behind.

 

 
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