What if practicing with a friends FIE Titan 25 auto speed shooting at 10 yards
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    What if practicing with a friends FIE Titan 25 auto speed shooting at 10 yards

    Today a friend of mine and I did some shooting practice together. He inherited a FIE Titan 25 auto, and we did some basic accuracy and penetration tests about a year ago. We used the same brand ammo as the last time, PPU. Now the .25 auto or acp round has in general a mixed level of performance, usually do to stories
    about how ineffective the penetration is. Some of the stories are probably true. We had some ammo that had shameful penetration. The PPU and the PMC Bronze however both passed the penetration tests, penetrating into 4 one gallon water jugs, (18 inches of water) , clear through a 1/2 inch of leather, a pork bone, and a 2X4. So if you've ever heard stories about a .25 auto failing to penetrate a leather jacket, a skull, bare skin, a sternum, etc, it probably wasn't from these brands of ammo.

    Regardless, a 1/4 inch hole is still just a 1/4 inch, so from a defensive standpoint anything less than a head or heart shot would not be immediately effective. (or maybe not even noticeable to the attacker) Although this handgun with these rounds are capable of excellent accuracy despite the awful sights if you go slowly, this is supposed to be a defensive gun, and a real life BG isn't going to give you 3-5 seconds to shoot. Both of us had recently seen the Active self protection video on the Wash mall mass shooter. So, just for the heck of it, we practiced a scenario where what if you can't run away, and are hiding, and the shooter is going around looking for more victims, and is coming your way. You know he's coming, but he doesn't see you yet. You'll going to have to shoot, and all you have on you is this little mouse gun. How long will it take you from a low ready position to hit 4 shots at a target the size of an IDPA target head. This was just an exercise, not meant to imply someone should carry a .25 as a primary CCW gun. We first tried at 10 feet, then 15, then 21, and then 30 feet, or 10 yards. His best 4 shot time at that distance was 1.25 seconds, mine was 1.11. The X on the target was the aim point for reference, not on there when we shot this. The reason we settled on 4 shots was with one in the chamber the gun will hold 8 total, which leaves you 4 shots remaining. It was nice to see what the gun is capable of in the hands of a couple of average shooters.


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    Had a .25 Auto once. Shot it at some old hubcaps at 7 yards. Felt something hit my pants everytime I shot, but it wasn't until I looked down at my feet and saw the .25 cal bullets around my boots. We sold it shortly afterward and stuck with a .45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lmstncwby View Post
    Had a .25 Auto once. Shot it at some old hubcaps at 7 yards. Felt something hit my pants everytime I shot, but it wasn't until I looked down at my feet and saw the .25 cal bullets around my boots. We sold it shortly afterward and stuck with a .45.
    I've heard similar stories about hubcaps. I wish I could find an old hubcap (one that's not an expensive collectors item) for testing with the good ammo. The bad ammo would've definitely bounced off a hubcap. They bounced off the 2X4, but we couldn't recover the bullets as they went somewhere in the grass. I'm guessing the PPU or PMC ammo would've punched through a hubcap, but it would be interesting to know for sure.

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    Ahh the ongoing argument about the .25 caliber pistol. I recently bought a nice Raven pistol. I tried the penetration tests as well. As it happens all I had was PMC bronze. My opinion...it's no primary carry but I would not ever want to get shot by one! PS Fun to shoot, aren't they?!?!
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    I have two Titans. One is a smooth functioning gun. The other is much less smooth, but I suspect that it was put together from spare parts, so that might be the reason. Still cycles 100% as of now, so I won't sweat it. Both guns seem more accurate than I would've guessed. Guess I'll keep 'em.
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    I have seen quite a few gunshot victims with the 25 auto, the 22 LR and 410 shotgun as those were the choice in the low income inner city by older people.
    actually I gained a lot of respect fro the 410 shotgun from this.
    its now (or was a few years back ) the 9 MM and 40 cal for the youngsters(gang bangers).
    anyway never looked at the brand of ammo but the effectiveness really differed quiet a bit with the 25.
    actually that's pretty good accuracy for the titan, better than I would have expected. Mingaa did a Bug Rapid fire several months back, heres what my Sig 238 did, if I remember rapid fire was 5 shots in under 5 seconds??
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC2639 View Post
    Ahh the ongoing argument about the .25 caliber pistol. I recently bought a nice Raven pistol. I tried the penetration tests as well. As it happens all I had was PMC bronze. My opinion...it's no primary carry but I would not ever want to get shot by one! PS Fun to shoot, aren't they?!?!
    Yes they are, very little recoil. Sights are short and awful though, at least on the FIE. So I take it your penetration tests with the PMC were successful as well, in whatever medium you chose to test it out on?

    You hear all these horror stories about how wimpy the penetration was but the problem is not all 25 ammo is the same, since the powder type and load varying can have a huge impact on performance. If you're facing a BG with a 25 and you think that you're safe because someone else got shot with one and the bullets bounced off whatever, you might be sadly surprised if there is good ammo in it.

    I made a marking error in the photo. Sorry. The target on the left (mine) should be the 1.11 seconds, the one on the right is supposed to be 1.25 for 4 shots.

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    A very long time ago, I had a pair of .25 ACP Ravens, Chromed with Faux Pearl Grips, given to me by an ex-wife. The best thing I ever did with them was trade them off as partial payment for a Colt King Cobra .357 Magnum.

    That said, I do think that the FIE Titans were nicer .25 Autos, and I would not mind having one in my Collection. I still have a .22 LR Jennings J22, but it has rarely ever been shot. The smallest Pistol I will carry these days is a Taurus PT709 9mm.

    Youtube reviewer Sootch did a review on the FIE Titan and here it is:

    "Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda

    For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

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    I just tested using 2X4's. They didn't get all the way through of course but got in very deep. Like I said I wouldn't want to be shot by one.
    "I can't fix stupid but I can fix stupid's dog"

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    I own a Beretta Model 21A in .25 ACP, and a Beretta Model 950BS also in .25 ACP. Both are very small guns, holding 9 rounds. Being Beretta, they are little gems of machining, reliability, and accuracy. Easy to shoot, and just fun.

    As for lethality, I responded to a shooting in Laurel, Md. one Sun day evening. We found a 6'+, 240 pound dead body. Still holding a baseball bat. Shot once by his abused wife with a 2" RG revolver, using 40 gr LRN bullets. Not in the heart or brain, either. She hit him in the gut, and it took out the renal artery. DRT.

    While we seem fixated on the "bullet sponges" that are truly rare, people actually aren't hard to kill. It's hard to believe that a bullet has to penetrate 12", and expend to a certain size, to be considered lethal, when a 4" bladed knife can do the same thing with a single stab wound.
    "The past is another country, he did things differently there."

 

 
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