maybe the last PT145 mag topic we will ever need?

[bamf_shadow]

I know that everyone and their brother has written a complaint/solution to our beloved PT145 magazine woes, and collectively we have managed to put some pretty decent theories out there that have hopefully helped several people avoid dealing with Taurus “customer service”. I am not a gunsmith (but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night), more like an enthusiastic hobbyist. I have done quite a bit or research and work on my magazines, and have made some interesting discoveries along the way. I wish to share those with you here in hopes that it might help you out. However, my fixes worked for me and my gun/mags, that does not mean you will have the same success. Some of the things I have tried might very well void your warranty; use this as a reference at your own risk.

I have three magazines for this pistol; I will call them “A” “B” and “C”. “A’ is what I believe to be the latest incarnation from Taurus, and has worked flawlessly from day one. As such, I used this as my reference when modifying the other two. “B” is what I believe most people have. I bought it new at a gun show a few months back. It fed 230gr FMJ’s well, but refused to feed any of the JHP’s that I tested with it. On occasion it would nose dive around the 5-6th round. “C” is a Pro Mag generously donated by a member of this forum. It also had nose dive issues, among other things.

First I want to show you my findings between mags “A” and “B”. Here is a picture of them side by side. Notice the height difference of the follower, as well as the angle.

Another view of the same two mags:

So I took them apart to evaluate the differences in the parts, noting that the mag bodies were the same on each. The springs are different: “A” having an 8 coil spring, “B” having a 10 coil.

Now there has been a lot of discussion sparked by a youtube video in which the author suggests cutting 1.5 coils from the rear of the spring (I assume he has a 10 coil) to lighten the pressure. While I agree (and obviously so does Taurus, ie. the 8 coil spring currently being produced), the correct method is to cut 2 coils from the top of the spring, not the larger coils on the bottom. I base that solely on the fact that the spring from “A” has two less small coils than the spring in “B”.
Now lets talk about the differences in the followers between “A” and “B”. Here are some photos to guide us:
Front of the followers

Back of the followers

Side of the followers

Aside from feed lips (we will get there), the follower in “B” is obviously much wider, thus causing it not to come up as high as the “A” follower. This has a lot to do with how the round sits in the mag, as well as how it makes its way up the feed ramp. Since I know that many of you don’t have both followers in front of you I took some measurements with my trusty calipers.
“A”: front bottom .631”, back bottom .597”, overall length 1.277”
“B”: front bottom .707”, back bottom .727”, and I can’t find the dang OAL, but it is longer!
So what I did was take a file and shape follower “B” to the specs of follower “A”. One thing to mention here is that by doing this the follower will ride further up the mag, so you will have to adjust the lip for the slide lock to compensate for that (file it down a little at a time).
The feed lips on “A” were .425” at the front and .427” at the rear, whereas on “B” they were .434” front and .420” back. I adjusted the lips on “B” to closely match “A” by employing the help of a rag-wrapped pair of needle nose pliers. After they were in spec I polished the insides of the lips with my Dremel. After these modifications I was able to use 230gr WWB FMJ’s, 230gr American Eagle FMJ’s, and my carry ammo: 185gr Speer Gold Dot JHP’s with 100% reliability.

Now let’s dive (no pun intended) into the Pro Mag, “C”. Here it is next to “A”:

The Pro Mag spring is again longer, but also wound differently. Here it is next to “A”, also showing what I cut off of “B”:

I built a neat contraption to measure how much force is needed to compress these springs fully, and to make them as equal as possible two of the larger coils on “C” must be removed as such:


And some follower comparisons:


I know it is hard to tell in the photos, but Pro Mag is using a completely different follower design. One of the problems is that they have left us with much less plastic to play with, so go slow! First I deburred the follower. Then I noticed that when the follower came fully to the top of the mag it leans right. This is caused by a “wing” of sorts on the right side of the follower. I filed it down a little at a time until I got it to sit straighter. That’s when I found the real Achilles’ heal in the design:

There is approximately .1” of space between the follower and the front of the mag body! This is allowing the follower to come forward in the mag, thus taking the loaded rounds forward as well. I tried a few things, but found that JB Weld worked the best. I put some on the front of the follower, and then filed it down to spec (1.280” OAL). You have to make sure it is baby butt smooth. Here is the result:

Now for some feed lip work. These mags use shorter (lengthwise) lips. Measurements are as follows: front .399”, back .396”. I opened them up to .428” front and .400” back. Once I did that the follower was able to sit a bit higher in the mag body and it increased the angle of the bullet a bit. Because of that I had to file down the slide lock lip (if you don’t the slide will lock open with one round still in the mag). After these modifications I was able to use 230gr WWB FMJ’s and 230gr Federal FMJ’s with 100% reliability (30 rounds of each were tested). I hand cycled my Speer GD’s without issue, although I didn’t live fire them.

I hope that this information helps you. Again, take it slow (you can’t add plastic!). I once read that Dremel is French for “watch me screw this up”. I used a ½” bastard file, a round file, emery boards, and sand paper for this work (minus polishing). Good luck!

[badman400]

Thanx for taking the time BAMF! Both in the research end and in posting it up here so others can benefit.

Wonder if a Taurus follower would fit in the ProMag body?

Just wondering. I don't have any of the ProMags.

I have two from a much older Millenium (pre-Pro), and the two that came with the MilPro I just bought a few months ago.

Hopefully some time soon I can find the time to put your fixes to the test with mine.

[bamf_shadow]

For the record the Taurus and Pro Mag follower cannot be interchanged.

[garyward]

very great post! thank you for taking the time to do this. I am not sure which mag comes w/ my gun (i ordered it last week and should have it this week), but i also ordered a pro-mag spare with it (hadnt read all the bad things yet, was focused on the gun when i ordered).. but thanks anyways, i can make sure everything works now!

[cws_dallas]

Thanks for you sharing the results of your hobby. Your expaination of the differences is the first really creditable theory I have seen on our magazines. I confirmed that the two that came with my PT145 are the type B. They have both developed serious nose dive issues w/FMJ after a few hundred rounds.

Having other carry options, I will just attempt to get CS to replace them. What you have accomplished in my case is saved me further experimentation with different ammo, etc. trying to prove to myself that the mags are the problem.

Thanks
Charles

[woodpile]

You are like a magazine scientist - thanks!

[ArmyCop]

Very very good post on mags. Thanks...

[Oldster]

This was good enough to become a sticky, but that's just my opinion.

[cws_dallas]

This was good enough to become a sticky, but that's just my opinion.

+1 With the problems I've had with mags, I would have loved to have seen this post at the beginning of my mag adventure.

[Quijibo]

Has anyone checked to see if we can order the new followers direct from Taurus?
I have the (soon to be modded) "B" followers also. I bought my pistol in July '09. I was going to order some new mags this week, now, I'm going to wait until I can actually see them in person before I buy.