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FBI caliber study

12K views 114 replies 43 participants last post by  aphdmansoc 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Humbug....

Firearm Gun Trigger Ammunition Revolver
 
#4 ·
#3 ·
A double "thumbs up" :thumb::thumb: to you for sharing this article with us.

I'm paring down my arsenal to, mostly, 9mm firearms for many of the considerations enumerated in this article.

These firearms have a permanent place in my arsenal:

Taurus CT9 G2 9mm Carbine

Taurus PT92 blued 9mm pistol

Taurus PT92 Duo Tone 9mm pistol

Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 9mm pistol
 
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#8 ·
9 sillymeter... no thanks! :D :D :D




Kidding aside, other than having fun with it, I find the caliber wars to be useless. The biggest factor for me is; can you actually shoot (accurately) with what you carry? I carry rounds ranging from a .32acp to a .45 acp and feel fine with any of them. My prejudice against the 9mm is purely emotional and non scientific. I might buy a 9 sillymeter range toy one day, but I just wouldn't carry it if I had a choice! :D :D : D
 
#10 ·
#13 · (Edited)
I came to some hard decisions when I bought my .380 TCP. It really depends on what you want it for. I love .45, but I've been giving the 9mm another chance, for similar reasons specified. I love recoil, so that's a moot point. For a home defense situation, where I probably have one or two intruders? My Sig P220 with 8 rounds of .45 is perfect. I'd rather justify one or two rounds of .45 that stopped or ended the intruder to a court than say four rounds of 9mm. I'd rather go 12 gauge, but that's less usefull in my narrow hallway. In that situation, size doesn't matter, and I want to stop someone fast. Now if you need to face a lot of people, like a gang? Give me maximum round count in something 9mm or larger. 17+ rounds of 9mm is hard to look down on.

And for CCW? My personal requirement for my .380 was (minimum) center mass hits at 40 feet, and head shots at 20 feet. If I couldn't do that, I wasn't going to get a .380. Six rounds to the face will do the job. And for something only slightly bigger? I like my PT111 G2. 12 rounds of 9mm is more comforting than 7 rounds of .45.... especially when I have no clue what I'll need it for. If you had to face an active shooter with a rifle or shotgun, you're undergunned no matter what. The trade-off of accuracy, round count, and stopping power is a tough one.

It depends on what you need, expect, and what your capabilities are. If you are confident in accuracy, smaller is ok. The British SAS never had a problem with the 9mm. They just train for double taps to the head.
If you are counting on only torso shots (like a 6" group or so) to stop someone... go as big as possible. A shotgun, preferably.
 
#17 ·
"9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI"

I don't understand this claim. I don't know what FBI used in their testing, but off-the-shelf SD ammo uses the same type projectile for 9mm, .40, and .45, etc. For example, all the various calibers of Critical Defense use FTX bullets. All the Critical Duty use Flexlock bullets.

Doesn't sound like objective testing to me. Just more of the same biased caliber spins some "experts" like to throw around.
 
#20 ·
For myself, I could care less what anyone's test show, I know what has worked well for over 100 years and what has served me well for over 50 years and that is what I will continue to carry: Colt M1911A1 .45ACP. Full size, midsize and compact. I see no reason to change because some test suggest so.
Black Text Font Yellow Mode of transport
 
#28 ·
Well, If'n I could carry, which we can't - this might just be what I would carry sometimes - it's a 9mm convertible Ruger Blackhawk - THE 9mm for us revolver lovers!



In all seriousness, I thank the OP for the link to this article, I couldn't understand a lot of it, but I did understand the gist of it. Accuracy is key!

And me just now finding out how much I love the 32 calibers - I'm going backwards!
 
#22 ·
I got into 9mm later in the game for the ability for higher capacity. Since shot placement is king, and since it is repeatedly shown that anyone, even FBI folks, gives away a ton of accuracy when the adrenaline is pumping that having the 9th through 17 rounds may be a lifesaver, especially considering that mag changes might also be compromised by the tension. (besides that, "Hi-Cap" pistols are a routine target of the gun grabbers and I want mine before that happens)
 
#24 ·
well I own carry caliber guns in 380, 9 MM, 38 Super, 10 MM and 45 acp.
I can reasonabally hit with any of them (thats why they stay here!), but for ME I carry the Beretta PX4SC, the CZ P-01, and very rarely on occasion the Springfield alloy framed offciers model.
reason is they are small, light weight and accurate, reliable weapons
I have no problem with believing that any of the three will work if called upon with the ammunition thats in them.
IF they don't I will pull out my Sig 238 and pistol whip someone to submission!
 
#50 ·
Let's all play nice in the sandbox and remember that one size does NOT fit all....

View attachment 96691
Yeah, some folks like 9 or .45. Not everyone can handle the raw power of a magnum revolver, ya know. Harry Callahan and I are rare birds.....:icon_ poke:
 
#27 ·
I find that the mid-bore platforms suit me just fine. The 9mm cartridge allows for quick follow up shots should they be needed. (Don't stop until they drop.) The modern 9mm H.P. loads are sufficient in my environment even in Winter. After all, I don't really want to kill anyone, I just want them to stop their aggression.
If I lived somewhere that people wore 6 layers to stay warm, my situation would require a fresh analysis.
This is also my approach to using .38 +P in my .357 magnum platforms for S.D.
 
#30 ·
If I lived somewhere that people wore 6 layers to stay warm, my situation would require a fresh analysis.
Actually, 9mm could be a good choice for those types of situations; 9mm has the highest sectional density of the major calibers, which means it has the best potential for punching through heavy clothing. I'd need to do some research to find a particular round, but 9mm would be a good starting point.
 
#31 ·
...and don't forget the cartridge pressure of the rounds under discussion!

SAAMI can help you out with that (or complicate the discussion!): Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfPR.pdf

A few in (or not) the discussion:
380 Auto - 21,500
9mm Luger - 35,000
9mm Luger +P - 38,500
38 Super Auto +P - 36,500
40 S&W - 35,000
45 Auto - 21,000
45 Auto + P - 23,000
454 Casull - 65,000

OH and case volume - let's not forget that - and bullet weight — got to think this through properly and logically before we hold the ribbon ceremony...

:lifting:
 
#32 ·
Exactly. See, it's chamber pressure that really, indisputably proves the utter superiority of the .45ACP. Both it and the 357 have about 95% one shot stops, but the .45ACP does so with only 21,000 psi. 357 requires 35,000 psi. So for .357, that's 2.7% stops per 1000 psi, but the .45ACP achieves 4.5% stops per 1000 psi! So all we need to do is use .45+P, and it's 23,000 psi will give us one shot stops 104% of the time! Is that new .45ACP derringer rated for +P?





Disclaimer; this post is utter bu!!$hit. If you did not immediately realize this, please go to your nearest service center and have your sarcasm detection unit serviced immediately. I'm sure that will help.
 
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