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Author Topic: Proper grip and presentation from holster.  (Read 330 times)
Oldster
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« on: October 30, 2009, 02:13:00 PM »

Now that I have shared what i've learned about mental awareness, combat mindset, and aquiring a "flash sight" picture, let's start at the beginning of a confrontation. Gripping your pistol/revolver properly, and drawing it from the holster. I know what you're thinking.."Oldster, it's no big deal, just grab it and go to shooting!" While it may seem like that is all there is to it on the surface, there is much more to it than that. When I had the honor of training at Gunsite in 1986, Col. Jeff Cooper posed a question to us, and as far as I know this is the FIRST TIME this question has ever been put down into written history (at least i've never run across it in all his quotes and commentaries)

He asked us  "How does one possibly expect to learn to drive a car, or any vehicle for that matter, when you do not know how to pull it out of the garage?"  So it's time to pull that vehicle out of the garage!

We will start with the grip, Col. Cooper broke it down into 4 parts.

Web - Web of strong hand contacts back strap of pistol as high as possible

Index - The part of the middle finger that touches the outside edge of the trigger guard, makes contact providing a "index" that your hand is going to grip the pistol properly. To find this index, carefully place the pistol in your hand in the full firing grip, then push your middle finger up against the trigger guard to the point of pain. You now have a very real, tactile index of your hand position on the pistol before you even complete the grip. Those of you who shoot frequently will notice that you have a callous there.
 
Finger - The trigger finger goes to its straight position on the frame. (with the holster being between finger and gun)
 
Wrap - EXCLUDING the trigger finger, wrap all the fingers around the grip with a firm even pressure.
Once we have that down, then we can proceed.

Most training organizations teach the draw as a 4 or 5 step process, which combine several movements into a step.  In fact there is a whole lot more going on.  Col. Cooper broke it down into 8 steps, the steps below break the draw into it's actual individual components and are designed to take you through the drawing process. We start out with distinct steps to learn the process and evolve into one smooth stroke where we are not conscious of the steps.

Grip - You obtain your strong hand firing grip on your pistol in your holster. This grip does not change. Trigger finger is straight.

Clear - Pistol is lifted clear of the holster. Trigger finger remains straight.

Pivot - Pistol is pivoted so the muzzle points toward the target. Pistol is just above the holster

Click - Safety is removed (autos) for revolvers and DAO pistols this step can be skipped.

Smack - Support hand grips the pistol

Punch - Pistol is moved to eye level, finger goes into trigger guard

Look - Sight alignment is verified with a FLASH SIGHT picture

Press - Trigger is pressed

Thus we work through the following steps.

Grip. Clear. Pivot. Click. Smack. Punch. Look. Press.
Grip. Clear. Pivot. Smack. Punch. Look. Press.
Grip. Clear. Smack. Punch. Look. Press.
Grip. Clear. Smack. Punch. Press.
Grip. Clear. Punch. Press.
Grip, Clear. Press
DRAW!

As practice continues the steps start to blend together (ie: In the second sequence the pivot and the release of the safety blend into one step. In the third step the clear, pivot, and safety release blend into one step, etc.) and eventually the process and thought train just becomes "draw" and when done right you can actually look at a target, close your eyes, draw, and when you open your eye the sights will be aligned.

When practicing the draw DO NOT RUSH THE SPEED. Work for smoothness and economy of motion. Speed will come naturally. If you have no real experience in drawing start with an empty pistol until the motions are imprinted on your muscles.

Pay particular attention to smoothness and economy of motion and to achieving a proper flash sight picture at the end of the draw stroke. (Ideally, you want to be able to look at the target, close your eyes, draw, and then open your eyes and have the sights aligned on the target.)

This information is not my own, it was taught to me by Col. Jeff Cooper. I am simply passing on the knowledge.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 02:44:45 PM by Oldster » Logged

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new2carry
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 02:27:40 PM »

Oldster,  It is a shame you are not in TX...You could make a fortune just working with my family on these techniques!  Keep up the posts. I am really enjoy the learning process!

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Bruiser 160
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 02:51:17 PM »

Oldster, I have a book"Complete Book of Shooting" that has a section with Col. Cooper explaining handgun shooting. He talks in one section about gripping a handgun. I believe the copyright was 1965. Just thought that might be of interest to you. The husband and wife that taught our ccw class were trained at Gunsite. Guns
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Majorlk
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 03:21:48 PM »

Nicely done!
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 03:42:12 PM »

Great post Oldster a lot of info for all even us seasoned gun guys. I'm always open to improvement.
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Laker
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 03:49:07 PM »

I'm enjoying you post as well Oldster, keep them coming.
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texastaurusguy
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 05:09:45 PM »

This is especially important if  you carry with safety on, or especially if you carry a 1911.  Frequent practice should be performed on presentation, using the thumb to flick off the safety as the gun is coming up.  This can't be stressed enough - in a stressful situation, you don't want to just yank the gun out and pull the trigger.......thats a good way to get yourself killed.

Great post Oldster !!
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FortyFive2Life
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 06:23:00 PM »

Nice post Oldster!  Thought I'd add some visual examples, hope they do the post justice Smiley  Note that the way I currently draw for self defense does not match up with the post, so I need to work on some things!

Start position:


Grip - You obtain your strong hand firing grip on your pistol in your holster. This grip does not change. Trigger finger is straight.



Clear - Pistol is lifted clear of the holster. Trigger finger remains straight.



Pivot - Pistol is pivoted so the muzzle points toward the target. Pistol is just above the holster
(note that I do not draw this way by habit.  Thanks to Oldster's post, I can work on this technique, which would help me fire faster from the hip if I had to, instead of waiting until I had the firearm fully raised in front of my eyes, which would be ideal)


And here I show the safety side during the draw, and you can see as I come up the safety has not yet been taken off...



Click - Safety is removed (autos) for revolvers and DAO pistols this step can be skipped.


Smack - Support hand grips the pistol
(Again, notice I haven't followed this technique to the letter, as my support hand came up before I even took the safety off)


Punch - Pistol is moved to eye level, finger goes into trigger guard



So according to my photos, I do not do this technique exactly right.  I draw the correct way, but I need to work on getting my muzzle pointed towards the target faster and getting the safety off BEFORE my support hand gets there.

Thanks Oldster, once I work on this technique more I'll try to get some pics up showing exactly how to do it according to your post!
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"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory.  I love only that which they defend."  -Tolkien

"Come my tan-faced children,
Follow well in order, get your weapons ready,
Have you your pistols? have you your sharp-edged axes?
Pioneers! O pioneers!

For we cannot tarry here,
We must march my darlings, we must bear the brunt of danger,
We the youthful sinewy races, all the rest on us depend,
Pioneers! O pioneers!"  -WW
tjsjr
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 06:53:46 PM »

well, guess i need to modify my kholster some more.  the leather under the grip keeps me from being able to wrap my fingers.  i worked out a technique but i dont like it.
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Oldster
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 08:36:08 PM »

FortyFive2Life, thank you for the pics! Your draw is 98% of the way there already. I am just laying down the basics taught to me by Jeff Cooper. There is nothing wrong with modifying it to fit your needs. I personally see nothing wrong with the draw you demonstrated in the pictures. I just have Col. Cooper's method burned into my brain and muscle memory through daily (yes, I said daily) repetition for the past 23 years, lol.  Also note, you can make a habit of having your support hand lined up with the target, so when you apply it to the grip, and "punch" you already have center of mass established and all you have left to do is aquire a flash sight picture and squeeze that trigger.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 08:43:29 PM by Oldster » Logged

"The internet: where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI."

"The nine millimeter is for killing europeans, for truely dangerous people you need a .45."
                      Col. Jeff Cooper

" George Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

"Life is tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne
FortyFive2Life
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 09:09:22 PM »

FortyFive2Life, thank you for the pics! Your draw is 98% of the way there already. I am just laying down the basics taught to me by Jeff Cooper. There is nothing wrong with modifying it to fit your needs. I personally see nothing wrong with the draw you demonstrated in the pictures. I just have Col. Cooper's method burned into my brain and muscle memory through daily (yes, I said daily) repetition for the past 23 years, lol.  Also note, you can make a habit of having your support hand lined up with the target, so when you apply it to the grip, and "punch" you already have center of mass established and all you have left to do is aquire a flash sight picture and squeeze that trigger.

Yeah, like a golf swing...whatever works for you Smiley  But after practicing your technique of clearing the leather, then flipping the muzzle up towards my target as I come up, I find I can get into a firing position much quicker.  I also have already become comfortable flipping the safety off just as soon as the firearm is pointing forward (finger still outside of the trigger guard). 

The pointers you posted are very helpful, and while everyone may not do it exactly as you described, they are a great place to start!  My big hands cover most of the small PT145, but I just traded my PT1911 so I don't have a larger auto to show pics with.  I might do a photo series with a Ruger GP100 revolver once I get a little better at this Smiley
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 09:11:46 PM by FortyFive2Life » Logged

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory.  I love only that which they defend."  -Tolkien

"Come my tan-faced children,
Follow well in order, get your weapons ready,
Have you your pistols? have you your sharp-edged axes?
Pioneers! O pioneers!

For we cannot tarry here,
We must march my darlings, we must bear the brunt of danger,
We the youthful sinewy races, all the rest on us depend,
Pioneers! O pioneers!"  -WW
MillPro.45
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 11:23:05 AM »

I just completed a basic tactical pistol course with Gary Swan outside of San Antonio. This is the precise method (and terms) he used during the instruction. Sounds like he had similar training!
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