Thinking of getting a .380

[Qwiks draw]

Beretta 84/85 are good bets as far as .380s go. Got a 85 single stack. Handles like the bigger brother, the 92, yet is not as big.

[JR]

Olfarhors, the poster that I was replying to was considering a revolver, and he had an LCR, but wanted one with an exposed hammer. That was in Post #19.

Many DA/SA guns, especially small one, use an abbreviated hammer, like the S&W 6906, that will remain flat with the slide, again to reduce snagging problems. Others, like the Colt Government Model .380, the Mustang, and the Sig P238 utilize the Commander style rounded hammer, and their small size, to accomplish the same thing, but only in Condition 2 or 3. The shape of the hammer, small as it is, still presents a snagging point when wearing a loose fitting garment, like a shirt, and drawing from under it. Worse, is the fact that the gun may print when moving around, as the hammer allows for an unnatural draping of the shirt when catching on that hammer nose area.

The older vest pocket, and pocket, guns were almost all striker fired, presenting a smooth snag-free surface. The Ortgies, Colt Model 1908 (and all of it's derivatives), OWA 25, Walther Model 9, Webley Model 1912, Jeffco Depose, Kommer Auto, Sauer Model 1913, Steyr Pieper, H&R Self-Loading Pistol, Norton TP25, and the Bauer Pocket Model (American made, post-68, versions of the Model 190 were all examples of guns used when modes of dress commonly included suits at all income levels (3-piece suits, at that). Larger, heavier, guns were available, but required much more planning, and more expensive tailoring.

Today, with the market flooded by striker-fired Kel-Tecs, Rugers, Kahrs, S&W, and a plethora of others, small pistols with a hammer are getting rarer. Calibers are available in these mini-guns that never existed in their previous hey-day as well. Where the .22, .25, .32, and .380 used to top the list, today we have 9x19 and .40 S&W chambered guns. Many are lighter than the older, all metal, guns, and have sights that are actually improvements over the "jam it up their nose and pull the trigger" equipment of old.

The .380 has been America's version of the European's .32 ACP. Typically, Europeans realized that the .32 ACP was capable of fine performance at the ranges involved in most of their self-defense scenarios. Until the American penchant for "bigger is better", especially the past two decades, surfaced once again, so was the .380 ACP.

Today, we seem to think that we're going into combat against drug-fortified, 250 pound weight-lifters with a death wish everywhere. People talk about terminal ballistics at 25 yards, or even beyond, when using pocket minis. I think that this is a peculiar defense mechanism, used to produce scenarios where ONLY a heavier caliber will suffice, no matter how unlikely they are to happen.

[chicharrones]

The .380 has been America's version of the European's .32 ACP. Typically, Europeans realized that the .32 ACP was capable of fine performance at the ranges involved in most of their self-defense scenarios. Until the American penchant for "bigger is better", especially the past two decades, surfaced once again, so was the .380 ACP.

Bigger people, bigger bullets? Obesity - adult prevalence rate - Country Comparison - TOP 100

[RevolverFan]

Bigger people, bigger bullets? Obesity - adult prevalence rate - Country Comparison - TOP 100

I was going to laugh at this, but compare hunting whitetail in the US vs. dangerous game in Alaska, Africa, etc. Not at all that we are hunting when using self defense, but the heavier bullet analogy might work here.......

[chicharrones]

Animal size does seem to influence a hunter's choice on caliber. The human animals here in North America are probably on average more well fed than the human animals in the rest of the world. Which should make us North American animals bigger and taller. Some physically fit, some not.

Of course, the mind set of an animal in distress will not always be the same as a human in distress.

[xcaliber]

Nice to have, but ammo runs higher then 9mm

[JR]

Good examples. Not too many years ago, the .30-30, and the .270 were the standard calibers for deer and black bear. Today, it seems as though the 7mm Rem. Magnum and the .300 Win. Magnum are being recommended instead. We used to hunt all but the Browns and Grizzlies with the .30-06. Today, the minimum caliber recommended is the .338 Winchester Magnum, with many stating that the .375 H&H Magnum is really the floor power level regarded as adequate. Yet, at the same time, the bears haven't kept up in increasing sizes to the increased power used to harvest them.

Obesity is a curious medical term. It's regarded as plastic in definition, molded to fit every new advance in what is considered a "healthy weight". Recently, blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes thresholds, and even the definition of ages and pediatricians have all been changed. Seems that the studies, funded by drug companies, are establishing thresholds that are rarely met without drug therapy. Everyone is now the same, regardless of ethnic history, size, weight, even frame size.

Europeans are usually close to Americans in size, as are Northern Chinese, Thais, and ever more so, the Japanese. Yet, they haven't succumbed to the "ever larger" mind-set.

The price of .380 is now comparable to the price of 9mm 50 years ago, when compared against the .45 ACP, or the .38 Special of the day. Dies that mean that 9mm wasn't as effective a caliber then as it is now, when it's cheaper?

If we chose calibers for self-defense by price and availability, we'd all be carrying .22 rim-fires.

[olfarhors]

Olfarhors, the poster that I was replying to was considering a revolver, and he had an LCR, but wanted one with an exposed hammer. That was in Post #19.
.

Gotcha! I understand now! and i agree , i can't think of many things that are snag magnets more than a spur hammer on a revolver!
as for the bigger is better scenario, especially when hunting!
most of Americas game animals are not true threat to us like animals in other countries so the magnum rage is kind of hard to justify to me!
Now i say this using a 300 Win mag for deer for many years!
i did however use a lighter projectile , trying more for a flater projectile for longer ranges, not a 250-275 grain projectile to try to knock the animal off its feet!
the really strange thing to me is whether in self defense weapons or hunting weapons, the great leaps in projectile performance would actually enable someone to use a smaller/ lighter round and expect the same or better results than older projectiles!
actually a good many might be disappointed if they compare the 270 winchester to the 7 MM Remington magnum, especially considering the price difference in the ammo.

[chicharrones]

Europeans are usually close to Americans in size, as are Northern Chinese, Thais, and ever more so, the Japanese. Yet, they haven't succumbed to the "ever larger" mind-set.

Those cultures probably never will. It is an American trait if not tradition.

The good thing is, us Americans do have the freedom and the means to purchase whatever legal caliber suits our wants or perceived needs. As much as we do complain about ammo prices, we do still buy the ammo we choose and the guns that fire that ammo.

[olfarhors]

Those cultures probably never will. It is an American trait if not tradition.
.

yes and unfortunately America has devloped some nasty traits as well!
Remember the pictures and videos of the Japanese people patiently and politely standing in line to get food and assistance right after the earthquake and tsunami not long ago?
remember the people of New Orleans patiently and politely standing in line for food and assistance after Katrina?
perhaps theres a reason for the ability to purchase amunition and firearms in America???
Not trying to start a political debate, just thinking!