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Thread: 40 S&W and FBI

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    40 S&W and FBI

    I have read that the FBI uses .40 cal for their standard issue handgun. Does anyone know what type/brand of ammo they use and why? Just wondering.

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    Re: 40 S&W and FBI

    The .40 was the making of the agency and I believe Winchester after the Miami shootout fiasco. If you don't know this story Google it. Initially they started with the 10mm, but some of the boy's couldn't control the firearm and more and more women were working in the field. The 10mm has a good sized grip. So, they came up with the 40 S&W. Some refer to the .40 as the Short & Weak. as in the smaller than 10mm round.

    As far as the ammo goes, I know Winchester got a big contract with them, but it could be for practice ammo.

    It's probably a 165 gr. bullet, perhaps Gold Dot or Ranger T's
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    Re: 40 S&W and FBI


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    Re: 40 S&W and FBI

    I don't think they have a contract with just one company. My brother is a retired agent and still goes to their range yearly for a luncheon and to shoot if they want. He brings me all shorts of ammo. Speer, Remington, Federal. 45 & 9mm. I'm sure if I had a 40 he'd get that as well. It's nice to get a little something from time to time for my tax dollars!!
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    Re: 40 S&W and FBI

    I too have had ammo gave to me and shot with fed.marshals
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    I have a friend in Cali. and works for the DOC he said that all the departments at least in his area have gone to the .40 and use gold saber ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rollin thunder View Post
    The .40 was the making of the agency and I believe Winchester after the Miami shootout fiasco. If you don't know this story Google it. Initially they started with the 10mm, but some of the boy's couldn't control the firearm and more and more women were working in the field. The 10mm has a good sized grip. So, they came up with the 40 S&W. Some refer to the .40 as the Short & Weak. as in the smaller than 10mm round.

    As far as the ammo goes, I know Winchester got a big contract with them, but it could be for practice ammo.

    It's probably a 165 gr. bullet, perhaps Gold Dot or Ranger T's
    The 10mm Auto was introduced by Jeff Cooper for the Bren Ten (which he also conceived) in 1983, three years before the Miami Shootout. The FBI initially settled on the 10mm, but recoil was a problem in typical service-size weapons. Physical size wasn't really an issue. (The OAL of the 10mm is 32mm, the same length as the 45 ACP.) Indeed, the first solution was simply a lighter load in 10 mm. (known as the 10 Lite or 10 FBI)

    The introduction of the shorter case that became the .40 S&W was driven mostly by economics rather than any specific government requirement. (although there were some reports of reliability problems firing the lighter load from guns tuned to run the hotter full-up 10mm loads.) Smith & Wesson (in partnership with Winchester) realized they could meet the specifications of the FBI load, but with a shorter case that would give an OAL similar (slightly shorter) than the 9mm. This allowed them to adapt the new load to pistols originally designed for the 9mm while simultaneously reducing material costs for the loaded ammunition, making both cheaper.

    Though some do like to refer to it as "Short & Wimpy" or "Short & Week", the actual performance is hard to argue with. Muzzle energy of standard pressure (there is no +P standard for this cartridge) .40 S&W loads actually exceeds that of standard pressure .45 ACP rounds. (not to mention the 9mm) Meanwhile, it offers ballistics (and a grip size) similar to the 9mm, making it an easier transition for those accustomed to the 9mm. The smaller caliber also allows increased magazine capacities relative to the 45 ACP. Jokes and sibling rivalry aside, it's really a good cartridge.

    Oh, while I don't know what the current load of choice is, the original load called for 180 gr. JHP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parad0x177 View Post
    The 10mm Auto was introduced by Jeff Cooper for the Bren Ten (which he also conceived) in 1983, three years before the Miami Shootout. The FBI initially settled on the 10mm, but recoil was a problem in typical service-size weapons. Physical size wasn't really an issue. (The OAL of the 10mm is 32mm, the same length as the 45 ACP.) Indeed, the first solution was simply a lighter load in 10 mm. (known as the 10 Lite or 10 FBI)

    .
    The FBI never formally tested the full power 10mm. An agent provided his personal delta elite and down loaded 10mm ammo for the test. The FBI had a recoil limit for submitted rounds. It could have no more recoil than the 185gr .45 ammo they were testing. The problem was the size and weight of the the Smith, not the recoil.

    The new contract is for the `180 PDX1. The load was developed specifically to pass the FBI testing. Then latter packaged as PDX1 and sold to us.

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    Indeed,for a time I owned a S&W 4506 , a 3rd generation Smith DA/SA Auto that shares the same dimensions and frame as the 1006 ( the 10mm weapon evaluated by the FBI) Excellent handgun functionally, but impossible to comfortably carry this side of a Desert Eagle .50 AE. Another drawback was the grip was massive-not in a PT92 or Beretta massive in terms of width, but the length of the grip frame front to back made for uncomfortable shooting.I couldnt get the tip of my left hand index finger to even reach the trigger guard, and I do not have small hands. I can see more than a few FBI agents male and female balking at carrying a weapon made that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thump186 View Post
    I have a friend in Cali. and works for the DOC he said that all the departments at least in his area have gone to the .40 and use gold saber ammo.
    If I'm not mistaken, Homeland Security also uses the .40 S&W caliber.





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