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9mm Makarov vs. Luger - oh **** I might be in trouble - please advise

40K views 38 replies 22 participants last post by  troutkiller 
#1 ·
Let me acknowledge right up front I realize I'm outing myself as a noob/doofus/whatever by needing to make this post - but I'm willing to accept that in order to reach out for some input here.

As I'm sure a lot of member here have, I've been buying up ammo when I get the chance - basically any 9mm FMJ I find, it's so scarce in my area. I have a brand new PT111 G2 that I've put about 200 rounds in so far, no issues. I've thrown 4 or 5 different rounds through it with no issues. That being said, when I found some 9mm at Academy today - the clerk pointed out to me "Hey just so you know this is Makarov." I (here comes the idiot part) did not realize that Makarov was a different caliber, essentially -9x18. Now I do, of course, but I made the mistake of thinking all 9mm was created equal. So when I got home I quickly checked all the various 9mm boxes I've stocked up, and sure enough I had 2 Makarov boxes. So where I'm at now is I'm scared to death I might have fired some when I merrily grabbed a few boxes and took off for the range. Is it possible that I did this and the gun didn't blow up? Would I DEFINITELY know? Could it have fired normally but still damaged my gun? I don't THINK I fired any... but I'm nevertheless concerned. I did look at the rifling in the barrel and it seems ok, I guess.

Anyway just looking for some insight here.
 
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#2 ·
I've never tried it, but I would assume that it would have a hard time chambering the shorter round and if somehow it did chamber the increased head space would do a real number on your handgun.

Sent from my bad a$$ Custom Epic 4G
 
#3 ·
Several links compare them:

Look at this one:
9MM Luger vs. 9mm Makarov?

Most Makarov's are chambered in 9x18. There are some being chambered in 9x19, but those are very few and very very far between in western markets outside of Europe at present. You are correct that they are NOT interchangable. The 9x19 will NOT fit into the smaller 9x18 chamber and firing a 9x18 in a chamber designed for 9x19 will result in case failure at a minimum and possibly a more explosive failure at worst. It should be stamped ON THE BARREL what ANY firearm is chambered for. Using ONLY what it was designed to fire is the safest way to go, period.

9x19 mm fires a .355" diameter bullet. 9x18mm Makarov fires a .366" diameter bullet. DO NOT attempt to interchange these two rounds.

--------------

9x19 (lugar) vs. 9x18 (makarov) - THR

Text Font Illustration



What is 9MM LUGER VS 9X18?
 
#4 ·
Thanks, believe me, I'm not trying to figure out here whether or not I can continue using the Makarov, I realize that it is a different sized round and they are not interchangeable. My main concern again is that I may have accidentally shot some without realizing - if that's even possible. But from what you're saying if I accidentally fired a few 9x19 mak rounds thru my 9x19 luger that I would know beyond a shadow of a doubt???? Again my concern being that it could have compromised my gun.. if it happened..
 
#6 ·
The MAK has a larger (in diameter) bullet. I am NOT an engineer, but the larger bullet COULD generate higher pressures going down the bore. The MAK was designed for blowback actions; most PARA are designed for a locked breech.

Do you notice any damage to your pistol?
 
#7 ·
I just took it down, again, and I do not see any damage. the Rifling appears smooth and unmarred. I guess if the use of a mak round would cause the kind of damage yall are saying it certainly would... then I would see something. If it even chambered. And fired without notable difficulty or explosion
 
#10 ·
#12 ·
Ha, orrrr I could sell/trade the Mak rounds. Hahaha, I love how this turned into buy a makarov pistol. I mean duh, I've got two boxes or ammo right? Calm down fellas, I bought my pt111 g2 not even a month ago. Pt1911 end of last year. All told I'm already juggling 5 different calibers, thats enough for now. That being said, I took samkents advice - while I didn't try to chamber a round, I did remove the barrel and manually attempt to slide in a Mak round - sticks halfway in. So I think it's safe to say there's no way I inadvertently fired any without **** hitting the fan.
 
#13 ·
The 9x19 would not chamber in your Makarov, as the bolt couldn't close on the longer round. The 9x18 won't usually chamber in a 9x19 pistol, due to the .364"-.365" diameter of the bullet not allowing the round to fully chamber.

Just sell or trade the 9x18, and get on with it. In the future, make sure that the ammunition is correct for the gun before buying it. There are a host of similar, or exact, names that will yield you different calibers. .32 S&W can also mean .32 S&W Short, or .32 S&W Long. Neither is .32 ACP. There is the .38 S&W, which is different from the .38 Special. In 9mm, you have the 9mm Largo (9x23), the 9mm Kurtz/Corto (9x17), the 9x18 Makarov, the 9mm Glisenti, the Winchester 9x23, the 9mm Browning Long, 9x21, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Winchester Magnum, and several others.
 
#15 ·
Don’t forget all the other names the 9mm Luger can also go by:

9×19, 9 mm, 9 mm Luger, 9×19mm, 9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Para, 9 mm NATO and 9×19mm NATO the NATO rounds should be considered +P.

Probably some I forgot.
 
#17 ·
Hey Muckle, I went to our local Academy and was stoked that they had about 15 boxes of 9mm. It quickly faded as I got to the counter (they put all the high demand stuff up front now) I saw the box labeled Mak.
I still asked about the 9mm and she said it was all they had. So I know how you feel. I still got a 100 rounds of .38 +P (they are still back by the guns) and 50 380. Too bad the 9mm Mak won't shoot in a 380.

By the way, I found Bass Pro had about 30 boxes of Remington 124 JHP. I got two for this weekend for steels and clays. So, things are looking a bit better. Keep looking.
 
#18 ·
This is the drawback to shopping at the chain gunstores!
even "IF" you see a caliber and ask about it many times the gun clerks either don't know or simply guess!
I was at the local Academy about 8 months ago and a guy had a pistol that was clearly marked 38 S & W and the clerks were trying to sale him 38 Special ammo, about a 1500-2000 PSI difference in the ammo.
OH yea its the same thing they said!!
While i wasn't sure if it would fit or not I was pretty darned sure it likely wasn't safe.
Fortunately I directed him to one of the better gun shops nearby, don't know if they had the correct ammo or not but certainly he would get better advice.
 
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#19 ·
You did not shoot the ammo in your 9mm Luger, the bullet's nose would not fit in the chamber. In other words, the slide would not close on the cartridge and there are no worries with your Taurus firing out of battery.

I'm a fan of the CZ82 and 9X18 Makarov as well.
 
#20 ·
If it didn't hurt your firearm,no harm done.just don't shoot any more mak ammo thru it.I once mistakenly shot some .380 in my 9x19 once and didn't hurt anything. I didn't even know it till I picked my brass up.whats strange was there was no difference in recoil or ejection. a friend of mine has a Bulgarian mak and for a buck 99 its a nice little gun,double action,nice easy trigger,even had a nice finish on it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
The Largo and bayard are not the same cartridge as the 9 X 19.
while the 9 X 19 goes by many names and is the same cartridge there are a ton of 9MM that are not the same as the true 9 X 19, the 38 super and 357 Sig sauer is perfect examples of this, the 380 (9MM Kurz) and many others.
The 9MM largo has been used in many less than deisrable weapons over its long history and i don't believe there is even a SAAMI pressure for that cartridge?
I think it is generally accepted that it is somewhere between the 380 and 9MM in power.
anyway be careful in the ammo that you try to shoot in your weapon some simply will not fit or fire but others will and if an old gun may be quite dangerous to fire a cartridge other than the gun was designed to fire at that time of developement!
Weapons that were designed around black powder cartridges and were switched to smokeless powder in later years are very often over loaded, especailly it seems in old shotguns that still use the same deminsions on modern shells.
 
#23 ·
Most Makarov's are chambered in 9x18. There are some being chambered in 9x19, but those are very few and very very far between in western markets
I've seen Maks in 9x17 aka .380 ACP, but never 9x19 which is a 35,000 CUP round that requires a locked breach gun or a HEAVY as hell slide and spring.(Hi Point). The maks are all blow back guns and 9x18 is a low pressure round designed for blow backs. It's got a bullet diameter of .363" vs .355" for the .380 and 9x19, too, in addition to being a straight case. I size 9x19, trim, to reload 9x18. The fired round takes the taper out of the case, but the 9x18 has the same case head size as the 9x19, the .380 is smaller.

I have a P64 Radom (Polish) in 9x18 I bought at Gander Mountain 3 years back, great shootin' little pistol! I highly recommend a mak chambered eastern bloc surplus gun, very reliable, accurate, and more powerful than the 9x17/.380 if not even close to the 9x19 Luger. Felt recoil on that Radom is pretty heavy, heavier than my 9x19 Kel Tec even though it's a 20+ ounce gun, but that's part and parcel of being a blow back weapon. Dang thing is 3" at 25 yards accurate, though, and shoots to POA and is pocket sized, about the size of the PPKs, smallest of all the eastern bloc guns.

I'd like to get a CZ82, double stack 9x18. I stopped at Gander Mountain yesterday and they had several P64s but no CZ82s. Their price on the P64s now was 249, gone up a tad, but Gander never was real good on pricing unless the gun was on sale.
 
#24 ·
Here is some .380 Auto brass that I accidentally fired in a 9mm pistol. If this stuff will fire, so will the Mak 9mm. Notice the cases are bulged and the primers are blown. These are all signs of excessive pressure. The 9mm Mak is a higher pressure round with a larger diameter bullet, so it will have much higher pressures than these .380 auto rounds did.



The best answer would be to check your brass (this stuff is getting more valuable every day, so pick it up). If you can't do that, at the very least, check your barrel to make sure you don't have a bullet stuck in it, or that it is bulged/ruined. Also, check your other parts for cracking, etc. that may have happened from too much pressure. You may not have harmed your pistol, mine made it without any harm, but consider yourself lucky.
 
#26 ·
Here is some .380 Auto brass that I accidentally fired in a 9mm pistol. If this stuff will fire, so will the Mak 9mm. Notice the cases are bulged and the primers are blown. These are all signs of excessive pressure. The 9mm Mak is a higher pressure round with a larger diameter bullet, so it will have much higher pressures than these .380 auto rounds did.
.
Whats scary is to see a surplus pistol (or really any pistol)that is using the correct caliber and the brass looks like this!
yep, been there, done that!
not mine but friends, Nope don't care to shoot that one thank you!
Back in the early/mid 60's there was really some crappy weapons coming in from Europe, things were easier then, we were all love children, you could buy guns through the mail and from Pennys' catalogs,we thought the volkswagen beetle was the gooviest thang, especially if it had a flower painted on it, greenwolf was hanging out on piedmont avenue chasing all the Hip girls!--GriiiN.
 
#30 ·
I really like my East German Makarov, but I can't find ammo for it fer nuthin' since last fall. The gun shop where my son works used to always have boxes of 50 FMJ @ $12.95 whenever I wanted some, now they never see any available to order.
 
#34 ·
My P64 is a handly little devil, al-be-it a heavy gun being all steel. I got it at Gander Mtn in Sugar Land for 199 bucks 3 years ago. Gander had 5 of 'em on display, all in like new, for 249 when I stopped there the other day. That's a little high, but the condition was perfect, like new. Want a 9x18, there's LOTS of bargains out there what with the P64s, Hungarian P63s, the CZs, the Russian Maks all still available. They're great little pistols all.

 
#35 ·
Don't feel too bad, I made the same mistake. I loaded a Makarov round into my Taurus 9mm and it jammed so hard I had to take to gunsmith. He removed the round and there was no damage to the pistol. He said I wasn't the first time he had to help remove a Makarov round, but I think he was just trying to ease my shame.
 
#37 ·
Here's a rare Makarov in .380 Auto that I picked up many years ago for something like $125. I remember stopping at Quint's in Mobile and seeing a big pyramid of boxes of them on the countertop. I picked one up and tried the trigger in double action, it was as smooth as butter. I remarked to the salesman that he must have a ringer with an trigger job laying there as I did not believe a $125 gun could have a trigger this smooth. He handed me a box of ammo and said to pick an unopened box, go out back and test it out. I came back in and bought that Mak. Now I wish I had bought several. My daughter has mine now, and somehow I don't think she is going to give it back.

 
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